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Post by tommynt on Nov 29, 2005 2:56:45 GMT -5
any of u every thought bout the problem of visable teammates?? U can see exactly what they are doing - what means that u can do next game exactly same. So in medium run there ll be hardly differences in player s skill what means that game ll be only decided by rng and map.
I like teamers and I also teach total newbies when they are in my team - but there are no more secrets, like "how the heck can el have 25 tows on turn 30 on me or so"
I noticed that GCs started to play teamers only with teaming with clanmates - I see some good reason for that.
"You have to adopt to the situation" - come on think about it - the more experienced under u ll notice that they do evry game more or less same (at least in 1. 30 turns), afterwards your tactics depend mainly on which resources u have
In civ3 every player develped his own strategy - and could do well like so - have for example a look into vanilla tips - they quite varie from top players
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Post by donaldkipper on Nov 29, 2005 8:56:25 GMT -5
so what u'r saying is, you're only good because u know more than your opponents and once they know the tricks u know, u wont be that good anymore
im struggling to feel sorry for u
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Post by tommynt on Nov 29, 2005 9:21:11 GMT -5
heh - if it d be like what u say - i d not play a teamer every day but thx for but maybe some others think as nasty as u can imagine
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Post by donaldkipper on Nov 29, 2005 10:41:33 GMT -5
lol tommy, i was only paraphrasing what u said
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Post by friedrichpsitalon on Nov 29, 2005 20:42:22 GMT -5
It is by being forced to adapt to our own tactics being used against us that we improve. Why do you think I write those articles?
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Post by Cereal_Killa on Nov 29, 2005 21:04:00 GMT -5
Most strat games have replays where you can view a playback of the game from anyone's perspective. Just cause you try to steal my leet strat doesn't mean you will win against me. If you follow a set routine then you aren't as adaptable to the situation. Mabye your micro isn't as good as mine (donsn't matter so much in a laggy turn-based game, but do you know your hotkeys?) History suggests that there is more to my strat than what you see @ face value ;D All up, it can give newer players an idea of how to play, but is hardly game-breaking as you seem to think. Especially in civ4 where you have to play @ the same time to watch
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Midgard
Worker
Captain of LoD
Posts: 103
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Post by Midgard on Nov 29, 2005 22:00:42 GMT -5
Im gonna have to agree with Donald, it sounds like Tommy is whining because oh my god you actually mean other people might get "as good" as you in this game? wow we had better hold back the evolutionary process. But seriously, no matter how you wanna look at it that's how it goes, whether they know your tactics or lackof tactics does not mean they will use them as good as you or they might even improve on them and do much better then you which in turn I guess if they do so you was not as good as you had orginally thought eh?
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Post by tommynt on Nov 30, 2005 4:14:11 GMT -5
;)wohhhhhaaaaaa
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Post by tezcatlipoca on Nov 30, 2005 13:04:54 GMT -5
any of u every thought bout the problem of visable teammates?? U can see exactly what they are doing - what means that u can do next game exactly same. So in medium run there ll be hardly differences in player s skill what means that game ll be only decided by rng and map. I like teamers and I also teach total newbies when they are in my team - but there are no more secrets, like "how the heck can el have 25 tows on turn 30 on me or so" I noticed that GCs started to play teamers only with teaming with clanmates - I see some good reason for that. "You have to adopt to the situation" - come on think about it - the more experienced under u ll notice that they do evry game more or less same (at least in 1. 30 turns), afterwards your tactics depend mainly on which resources u have In civ3 every player develped his own strategy - and could do well like so - have for example a look into vanilla tips - they quite varie from top players omg, seriously what do you know that we dont already. Also i know your teamates wont have time to be looking at what your always doing.. They might look everyso often but not always. I have played many teamers and i find myself looking more at myself then anyone else. Secondly this team view thing is amazing and allows for perfect multiple attacks and much better coordination. So the way i see it is that u dont like teamers because ppl gonna find out how u do what u do. Why dont u try a cton maybe? or is it that u have to depend on ppl to win?
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Post by Lestat on Nov 30, 2005 13:17:07 GMT -5
I played 1 timer 4v4 where my teamate play oposite that he play in CTON (sarcastic opinion). He was border civ for our team. He dnt build units, he build libraries, wonders etc. He got 6 empty towns all in flames (unrest). In 1 moment he told to us : "I can build Piramid for 10 turns" but enemies was at the hes door. I drop down from my chair and laught. Next he ask about great leader. I was trying to help him but without result. Then I told him to put that leader on my teritory and press blue package. Then our second teammate told him noooo u dnt kno wot he told to u. Funy to hell. It is unbelivible funy game and I enyoj in it. We won but if we dnt won I like it to.
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Post by DrShot on Nov 30, 2005 13:19:41 GMT -5
Tommy has gone off and gotten himself all worked up again. Glad to see you are playing teamers, I dare say the team aspects of C4 are the boldest and most enjoyable overall. The concept of people 'seeing ' what I do is valid cause for concern. Valid cause for concern ONLY if you have a linear,that is only one stlye of play. Most people respond to situations in like ways everytime. these folk become ez pray for the more insightful(not simply experienced) players. How many times have you been in a game (C3even) and heard...or said , hey that guy will do this for the next so many turns , then he makes one of theose, he 'always does that'. This does not come from team games where you 'see' what transpires, this comes form the person being with out creativity...perhaps sticks to what they believe works.
Have you never thought about people that reload games after to see what one has done in certain predictaments? Have you never played someone so many times you know he will make 14 wondewrs this game, he always does.
Perhaps you should look at this in another way. How about next time you play one of these 'crafty devils' that have studied your game play(in a few team matches,golly) so that they know exactly what you will do they fall into a trap where you bait them into doing what you want . They 'know' you would move a force there, or leave that sort of city like 'that(defenses)'. Well, you have them at your mercy, now you just suckered their forces into your land to strike at you. However you actually moved a sizeable force into their lands for a pre-emptive strike goin for a kill.
Really, if this is a concern,I doubt is is for you, upon further reflection, you are indeed a linear player that should watch others in team games and perhaps pick up some tips on expanding your civ experience.
Really now, your telling me that you let every thing hang out in every game, you don't have a few hot ones that you keep just to yourself...hmm
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Post by thejesus on Nov 30, 2005 16:19:19 GMT -5
I like the visable team thing. I was on tommynt's team and learned a couple things. Its cool to see how other ppl play. I see no harm in uping everyones level of play.
By the way, I still hate this game
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Post by soccermaster06 on Nov 30, 2005 17:24:44 GMT -5
I think the visible teamate thing is kind of cool. With playing the future era alot I remember tha lag that was ensued by all the trading maps and techs Just a little trick that helps out something you would use anyway by trading maps.
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Post by Tony on Nov 30, 2005 19:54:37 GMT -5
i must say i understand what tommy is saying, obviously you have to be able to react to diffrent situations, but in other situations the best way to play is always a certian way.
I can only use C3C as an example cuz i dont know enough about this game yet, if you dont have any neighbours close in CIV3 and you know you will be building for atleast 30 turns before war then you generally pop rush granaries in the first few cites and lay down as many cites with warriors on mountins and cites that will have prior notice of being attacked are generally be left empty, and never build expensive units early.
But this took months to work out, where to expand and how to do it safely, and what to build and when. For example i have seen many many players build a spear for all settlers like the comp does. I remember someone complaining about civ3 ancient has gone boring cuz most people know how to play it. With roll over food and production in this ally dont even really need to see MMing to copy what your doing.
Consider another siutation 2 players playing 1 good one and 1 noot so good one, the good one can almost fully dictate the game for the whole team, build this, attack that warrior on the hill with a axeman, dont attack him yet, etc.
Only time will tell, but all im saying is i can see tommys angle.
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Post by Sly_time on Dec 6, 2005 11:15:05 GMT -5
well in teams games there is a captain for a reason...they are usuaaly more seasoned vets and you can learn a lot from them...they will teach you things that you may or may not have known
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Post by donaldkipper on Dec 6, 2005 12:32:12 GMT -5
in c3c, u could save every autosave and go back and see what everyone did, including the opposition
in civ 4, all u get to see is your teammates, while u are trying to play yourself
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