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Post by Canucksoldier on Aug 27, 2006 14:41:40 GMT -5
Ok, i've just seen CS message on the thread Ironman scandal. It looks like a set of unluck, because CS agreed with the deal just before he knew Swissy was back, and we cut off the game before CS could tell us the new situation. But i still have doubt on Swissy saying he tried to enter the game in time, and even, 3 reboot dont last 30 minutes. After the second reboot, he should have tell us popov was blocking ! I still cant understand this point.... there's something weird here... As most people know Swissy's computer is not the fastest That no doubt played a role in taking so long to reboot and try rejoining. CS
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Post by knupp on Aug 27, 2006 15:13:27 GMT -5
Thanks Levi.
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Post by djojoz on Aug 27, 2006 15:31:04 GMT -5
Ok, i've just seen CS message on the thread Ironman scandal. It looks like a set of unluck, because CS agreed with the deal just before he knew Swissy was back, and we cut off the game before CS could tell us the new situation. But i still have doubt on Swissy saying he tried to enter the game in time, and even, 3 reboot dont last 30 minutes. After the second reboot, he should have tell us popov was blocking ! I still cant understand this point.... there's something weird here... As most people know Swissy's computer is not the fastest That no doubt played a role in taking so long to reboot and try rejoining. CS Alors la c'est le pompom !!!!!! if swissy has a computer of sh**** it is its problem and that of its clan. We were to oblige to change players because the game (ironman) became too heavy for the PC of yeeeps and now you find excuse for swissy!!! One should not exaggerate [fun]ggjohanson
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Post by Canucksoldier on Aug 27, 2006 15:44:58 GMT -5
No one is saying that his computer is an excuse for this issue, just that it's what likely took him longer to reboot, the defacto reason he couldn't rejoin the game was because of popov's firewall issue.
And if you can't express yourself in english without swearing have one of your team mates post here instead.
CS
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Post by djojoz on Aug 27, 2006 15:52:17 GMT -5
No one is saying that his computer is an excuse for this issue, just that it's what likely took him longer to reboot, the defacto reason he couldn't rejoin the game was because of popov's firewall issue. And if you can't express yourself in english without swearing have one of your team mates post here instead. CS It is not to in no case an insult but a simple French expression.
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Post by Canucksoldier on Aug 27, 2006 16:05:12 GMT -5
Sorry I wasn't referring to your french colloquialism, which I understood fine, but by the word that the forum replaced with stars But this is really taking this off topic and it is evident that we will agree to disagree, and like I said before you have an official route to challenge Levi's ruling and it would be better to use that than sit here and argue about this. CS
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Post by djojoz on Aug 27, 2006 16:16:51 GMT -5
the forum did not put *** it is me which inserted them to remain polished!!!
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Post by MMV on Aug 27, 2006 16:54:02 GMT -5
It's kinda funny that no one saw Swissy in the lobby at all during these 30 minutes. If at least one person saw him in the lobby, I could maybe call this a fair ruling. Uastranger said he checked the lobby. It seems to me that it is really Swissy's fault for not PMing any other member of either KC or the Tournament staff since he doesn't have c4f, to tell them what was going on. I would have done it after 5 minutes not 30 minutes and an agreed call. He admittedly knew he had problems with c4f and should have had some other way to contact people either through the lobby or TS or whatever. After hearing everyone's side of the story, IMO one of two things should have happened. The game should have been reloaded, or called as it was and agreed upon by the tournament staff. Swissy should have been disqualified. Swissy is a seasoned ladder player and should have some clue of what to do. For example contacting tournament staff to apprise them of the situation. 30 minutes of waiting with no indication from Swissy that there is a problem is just too long in my opinion to not disqualify him. At what point in time did the members of the ironman event attempt a reload during all this? (no one has mentioned this) Doing a reload when a player has dropped due to technical difficulties (and the other opponents KNOW this) is required during a regular ladder match - and it's still required during a tournament event.
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Post by MMV on Aug 27, 2006 16:55:33 GMT -5
and...
OH MY, this isn't even CLOSE to CCC drama.
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Post by uastranger on Aug 27, 2006 17:00:30 GMT -5
maybe this sounds familiar: [5:22:35] [C4PAdmin]CanuckSoldier_c4f-tk : yes we forfeit, I could try for a reload since it's a techncal problem [5:22:44] [C4PAdmin]CanuckSoldier_c4f-tk : but I don't want to hold the game up
And lol , what this about official channels . Its supposed to be a fun and competitve event. And i had fun starting the game , getting nukes, and nuking the nuts out of ppl and racing to victory!
No fun in seeking official channels! Hidding behind official channels ??
Well, Im going to let this rest. I showed my disaprovement and dont want to waste any more words on it. I regret it had to go like this.
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Post by MookieNJ on Aug 27, 2006 18:32:46 GMT -5
My two cents --
If a player is trying to reconnect for 30 minutes and another player is blocking, then it's the blocking player's responsibility to speak up, exit the game, and let the dropped player back into the game. They built in the pop-up notifications for a reason ...
As for the C4F issue, I sympathize with Swissy here. I agree that it's essential software for anyone on the ladder, especially during the CCC. However, my C4F didn't work for a week due to problems with ISP where I could not connect to the civ4fans website, so the program could not start.
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Post by mansurji on Aug 27, 2006 18:34:27 GMT -5
I had lot of fun playing it too... this is where you got true emotion, when you see Ebd sending 20 cats on you, or some foolish ..A.. guy i wont name sending 10 or 15 ICBM on you in 20 turns ;D when i saw all my cottages were gone and i couldnt achieve the space race, i decided noone would. So when popov build some parts, i sent like 30 helicopters and 30 tanks on him. I razed one huge town and watch his two biggest cities turning from 18 pop to 6 due to slaving, then uastranger built the spatial wonder... I moved all my troops back, upgraded 30 canon to artillery and launched another attack. It could have been fun, but it wasnt at all uas defended well, attacking every turn with his mech and copters, and those turns looked like never ending... that was living hell anyway i liked it very much, and i hope the event Ironman will stand on next CCC's.
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Post by deyreepher on Aug 27, 2006 19:20:53 GMT -5
I'll say this in every thread where this pops up. Nobody (well, 3 out of 4 players) knew Swissy was trying to reconnect until after we left the game. If I had known, things would have been differently.
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Post by mansurji on Aug 27, 2006 20:28:13 GMT -5
Mookie, reepher is right, we had no clue swissy was trying to come back, and we still have no clue he truly did. Popov said he didnt get any message, and noone saw swissy or had news from him before we all left the game, 45 min later.
Seems noone know nothing on what truly happen, i suggest we let the admin take a decision and we don't do some judgement with only partial informations.
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Post by deyreepher on Aug 27, 2006 20:39:28 GMT -5
Here's our line of thinking though Mansurji....if Swissy says he was trying to reconnect the entire time, I believe him. No questions asked. I would never question Swissy, he is just that kind of person who wouldn't do that kind of thing.
That is why the whole thing is in doubt.
Aside from that, the technical issues just make the IronSub event a bad event to have. Great idea, but it is just an event that lacks balance.
Key point - If someone quits, the whole game immediately becomes unbalanced. How else can you account for Swissy making up a thousand point deficit in the span of 20 turns? He rolled the AI that was to his north and he was making those cities productive to him. Within 5 turns, he would have overtaken you on the point lead as he still had 2 more AI cities to mow down.
This is not to downplay your performance. You were rocking the hell out of both your neighbors, which was pretty impressive. I was watching your land get nuked to hell, or at least it had been by the time I joined.
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Post by mansurji on Aug 27, 2006 21:42:32 GMT -5
What you said on swissy, i can say the same on popov. If he says he didnt get any message, you can trust him. About the score, trust me, swissy wont have get me in 5 turns. I did slaved my whole territory a few turns ago, in 15 turns i would have get most of the pop points back. All my graph was kickin the ass of everybodies and it wasnt about to stop. I agree with you about people leaving the game and unbalancing the event. There should be a rule about it, seems taking a land to an AI or an human is not the same at all. My land did certainly get nuked to hell hehe that was the worst part of the game for me, the time after uastranger get the bomb and before i get the bombers. This guy totally ruined my economy and made me doubt for a short period of the victory. As soon as i ve been able to bombard his uranium, things get much better. When i think to the time i was defending my town versus yeeeps' first chariot, and the one i was invading popov and suffering nuclear, i can see this event truly rocks. That's what MP game of civ4 should looks like.
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Post by Canucksoldier on Aug 28, 2006 0:03:02 GMT -5
Well we can discuss rules to penalize clans for leaving the ironman in the CCCAC forums, and see if that is the direction that the clans want to go. And ofcourse the issue of the ironman in general.
CS
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Post by Bantams on Aug 28, 2006 5:51:45 GMT -5
Jesus christ if someone has the save from when swissy dropped just host a reload for christ sake then lets put this issue to bed
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Post by venceslas on Aug 28, 2006 8:23:37 GMT -5
In civfr Popov has confirmed that he has no popup from Swissy. However he said he has got popup from Conquistador(so 40 minuts after Swissy has disconnected). We know Popov and we trust him.
I trust also Swissy when he said he tried to hotjoin, maybe Bantam has the good explanation:
"Yes but sometimes in my experiance anyway all you get is connecting/contacting peer with no name given so then i guess nobody gets the pop up message"
Maybe it was a problem under civ4, I don't know.
In other posts, it has been often written that FUN has finished third(with Swissy second), it's the admin duty to check it point. Why admin haven't contacted others ironmen players to check it? You need a screenshot to verify this point, but don't need a screenshot to display the result? Previous CCC sometime it happened, but never screenshot has been required.
With so many judgement against them but nothing against Swissy (Yeeeps lag vs Swissy lag,Yeeps alias vs Swissy alias(KC_swissy gamespy alias and Swissy in the Roster, FUN has forgotten three letters in the roster list also),second place, third place) how do you want people who don't speak english can trust you?
Below the Popov post:
voila je tiens à montrer le message que j'ai ecrit dans le forum Fun à propos de l'inronman :
Pendant 40 minutes, je n'avait aucune fenetre que je bloquer le KC apres 40 minutes, j'ai eu 2 fenetre mais le OS me disant qu'il fallait pas que je sorte (il etait mon traducteur car je ne comprend l'anglais....) car la regle disait que apres 10 minutes, il fallait eliminer le joueur et c'etait aussi ce que disaient apparement les autres joueurs. Et tous à etait dit aux autres joueurs de cet état de fait.... Alors avec les autres joueurs de l'ironman et l'admin present, la decision etait d'arreter la partie en elimnant le KC, en fait moi je voulais continuer car j'étais sur de reprendre la 2eme place mais j'ai du me plier aux autres votant... Alors deja j'avais les nerf d'etre que 3eme, puis le lendemain j'apprend que je suis 4eme puis maintenant dernier et que aucune reclamtion à ete posé alors que c'est faux les FUNs posé reclamation. (on a posté sur le forum US et envoyer des MP aux admin...) Alors pendant les 50 minutes ou on a attendu que le KC se reconnecte, les joueurs presents plus l'admin present, ils ont tous pris la decision d'éliminer le KC et d'arreter la partie de facon officiel... (dsl mais qd on prend une decision officiel, on change pas d'avis ensuite à plusieurs reprise....)
tiens un autre exemple de cette mentalite US : j'ai remplacé yeeeeps parce qu'ils le menacé de l'eliminer car il lagger et moi j'arrive et je vois que le fameux KC qui fesait lagger de maniere assez monstrueuse alors pourquoi le KC avait le droit de lagger mais pas yeeeps....
Alors je suis desolé mais si les admins et les organisateur de cette CCC pratique de tels actes frauduleux, scandaleux et acte de tricheri car pour moi c'est le cas car si c'etait un fun ou un clan francais à la place du KC il n'aurai rien fait.... Voila je crois que j'ai plus envie de faire la CCC, cette bande de tricheurs me donne plus envie de faire une seule CCC.
J'ai des sentiments contraire à cette CCC, des cotés trés positifs avec la performance du Clan FUN qui ont tous tres bien jouer et ont marqué des pts dans bcp d'events j'avoue avoir ete FIER d'avoir etait FUN à cette CCC. mais d'un coté personnel j'ai l'impression d'avoir ete volé et trahi par les organisateur de cette de maniere scandaleuse qui ne me donne plus envie de jouer les CCC.
END OF THE POPOV post
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Post by Canucksoldier on Aug 28, 2006 11:44:06 GMT -5
I posted in one of these threads that the order was decided when 2 players told me the same thing, I also stated that I would change the order if someone sent me a save, and that has not happened, ergo the order stands as is.
As to the name issue you bring up, it is not the same issue, there are no rules stating that names in the CCC roster have to be character for character the same the ladder name. Clan tags are easily recognizable as such. The problem with leter/l3t3r was not a clan tag issue, the name was not even easily recognizable for most of us and we were concerned about imposters which lately have used similar letters/numbers to imposter players. Swissy's ladder name is "KC_Swissy" and that is the name he entered the tournament and entered the staging room. So let me be clear that there is no anti-french conspiracy on Civ4players, we welcome your participation in the CCC, and if anything we would wish that more of your players participated dailly in ladder matches and activities.
CS
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