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Post by mansurji on Aug 27, 2006 6:47:40 GMT -5
A last thing, about the reasons you're relaying on
QUOTE : << Yeeeps, the ruling was made by Levi, one of our co-HTD's that Swissy would retain 2nd place, primarily because:
a. He crashed out of the game and didn't leave on purpose; and
b. He tried several times to join during the 30min the game was delayed but always got a firewall message from popov. So by no fault of his own was he not able to rejoin. >>
The rule of the ladder says : If someone must leave the match (or drops), 15 minutes will be allowed for them
Or drops . There's no special rule for a drop. There is one we wasnt told about ?
He tried several time to join the game? see my post up there, if he really was, he should have told DeyReepher, uastranger or I, we were all on c4f.... and even, he should have told CS ! Why didnt he do that ? We were speaking with CS at this time, he would have told us the matter.... So sorry but i doubt of this argument. All of us in this situation would have try all that was in our power to tell people we were back.... not him, and that is why he had been pull out of the ranking. It's not fair to get him back now, seems players in the game agreed with the deal because of their own position. Uastranger should be second, and Popov third, that's it.
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Post by Ellestar on Aug 27, 2006 7:22:10 GMT -5
Swissy, you really tried to enter the game during the time you was allowed to ? Sorry, but there was 3 players of the game on c4f, you should have told one your problem. We had no clue you were back, and ( sorry ) i'm pretty sure you wasnt. It's easy to say after : i was back ! but noone saw me... So all of you didn't check lobby as well and you didn't try to reload. I don't see why all of you whine when you broken the rules themselves first. If you didn't do anything so to get a player who was on a 2nd place back to the game then you should be punished for that.
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Post by tommynt on Aug 27, 2006 7:30:19 GMT -5
ya for me that looks still like unfair gaming from palyers left in game espacially the one who got firewall message
complaining about ruling afterwards make it even worse
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Post by swissy on Aug 27, 2006 7:34:32 GMT -5
Was swissy under c4f talking with someone else in the game or to someone from a clan still represented in ironman... explaining his problem ? Was a TD available at that time ? Btw, KC was 4th or 5th without any chance to take better rank before that and is now second ? My c4f doesn't work since the Warlords upgrade. I get a RUNTIME error 13, type mismatch. I have PM'ed you a couple time about it. I have unistall/reinstall off a new c4f download, to no avail. I have tried unistalling and searching to clean out left-over components and still it does not work. After you died China, Romanzi, came after me and lost two stacks without buta few losses on my side. I counter-attacked and rolled four of his cities. I owned everything on his original landmass. The new luxs I captured allow my cities to grow again. At the time of the crash I had everything on the west end of the map and was #2 in land #3 in population. It may have looked like I had no chance, but while the others were taking you out or fighting the leader I built up my production. When I counter-attacked China I was making 5 tanks a turn to feed into the invasion.
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Post by mansurji on Aug 27, 2006 9:31:06 GMT -5
Hmm where did we break the rules, ellestar ?
We went on lobby, we had c4f running. I didnt saw any message from swissy until my own drop of the game. Then he was there, 45 minutes after his drop. We didnt saw him before, we had no clue from him to be there. I assume i said that i was to tired to check c4f on my own, and i asked DeyReepher if he could check it, what he did.
But where was you, Ellestar, during the game ? We were playing for many and many hours, the game was lagging like hell, each turn was about 4 or 5 minutes long. I dont like the way you speak about ppl playing it. We only had one greed, to stop the game. Then, swissy dropped, and we waited for him. It turned to be such a long wait, and we decided to finally stop the game here, using the 15 minutes rule on Swissy, seems he wasnt showing back.
Some people was on vanilla lobby, including Canuck Soldier. If Swissy didnt had his c4f working, he still had the opportunity of speaking directly to CS from the lobby. We were in relation with CS, to solve our matter, we were in relation with conquistador too. None of them told us Swissy was back.... so i ask the question, where was swissy ? Was he trying to join the game again and again for 30 min ? I presume popov would have seen the pop up spam, and would have tell us. I guess you agree he wasnt doing this, so what was he doing ? He wasnt on lobby, else DeyReepher would have saw him, or even CS or Conquistador. So where was he ? I'd like to know.
But this is not the real matter, dont forget it. The matter is that all the players inside the game took a decision, and the concerned admin agreed with it. This is the important point.
Now, people want to come back on the decision we took this night, and i dont think it's fair. Please dont speak about complaining about the rule, when the game was stopped because Yeeeeps didnt have a fitting name, for a clan tag. We applied the rule and that's all.
Now if i post more, i will say again and again the same things, so i'm waiting for a comment from Levi or Canuck.
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Post by mansurji on Aug 27, 2006 9:44:10 GMT -5
Ok, i've just seen CS message on the thread Ironman scandal. It looks like a set of unluck, because CS agreed with the deal just before he knew Swissy was back, and we cut off the game before CS could tell us the new situation.
But i still have doubt on Swissy saying he tried to enter the game in time, and even, 3 reboot dont last 30 minutes. After the second reboot, he should have tell us popov was blocking ! I still cant understand this point.... there's something weird here...
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Post by Ellestar on Aug 27, 2006 9:59:59 GMT -5
Ok, i've just seen CS message on the thread Ironman scandal. It looks like a set of unluck, because CS agreed with the deal just before he knew Swissy was back, and we cut off the game before CS could tell us the new situation. But i still have doubt on Swissy saying he tried to enter the game in time, and even, 3 reboot dont last 30 minutes. After the second reboot, he should have tell us popov was blocking ! I still cant understand this point.... there's something weird here... If he didn't try to rejoin then he had no way to know that it's popov who's blocking him. Since he knew that it's popov who's blocking him and 2 more people saw the same popup (including the admin), we may be absolutely sure that he tried to rejoin. But i guess for you it's too hard to make such an obvious conclusion himself.
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Post by mansurji on Aug 27, 2006 10:04:14 GMT -5
No need for those sarcasm.
I tried to understand this point too, and he could have known about popov with the 2 ppl you're talking about, who know... even not intentionnaly.
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Post by SirPartyMan on Aug 27, 2006 10:05:04 GMT -5
We will review the situation, but the TD (LEVI) made his best call, and no one appealed the decision.
Best, SPM
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Post by uastranger on Aug 27, 2006 12:02:23 GMT -5
This is crap!! First of all I totally do not agree with the bad ruling of the TD's! And secondly I don't like it at all that ppl are now saying i was unfair to KC_SWISSY.
He dropped on a key attack between number one and me! I had the space parts going and was going to get space victory (only i had a good shot at it) some time soon! Mansurji attacked me with all his units. And i was surviving and killing his units like crazy! KC_swissy was just expanding like crazy so he would pass number get high in points. He had just climbed into second with a 50 point difference (higher then me then). The rest of the game he had been at the bottom. This was the situation in the game!
So when he dropped, I first waited 15 min and checked the lobby on both vanilla and warlords. Didn't see anybody! Then ppl started saying they wanted to call it. At first i didn't agree because i wanted to play on. But ppl where really fed up with the lag (mostly at the Time created by kC_swissy) and drops, me including. But first i tried to find KC members that could sub for Swissy. I posted in both lobbies and contacted Conquistador. And he said he was trying to connect, and was blocked on popov. I did not see Swissy in the lobby at any time. Thus we wait another ten minutes. Then i contacted Levi to ask him if he could do anything! He heard me out and didn't know what to do. So i went to conquistador and suggested a reload. Conquistador then told me that he wouldn't mind forfeiting so the game could go on. Other ppl where trying to get a solution 2!
So i went back to the guys in the game and told them this. They all wanted to call it then. So i said; ok, we will play 1 or 2 rounds and then call it! Which was risky because i could loose a city in the attack. So we played two turns and i defended the attack. And we called it. So then we said good game and everybody was happy the game was finally over. (i was second)
So some deyreepher went to report the standings to the TD's. I was still in the game waiting for confirmation, while the rest left. Then all out of the blue, i got told that the TD's where gonna call it on points at the time KC_swissy dropped! Because he had just showed up in the lobby and had said he tried to connect plenty of times. Well my question is why the heck did nobody know he was their. Nor the TD's who knew he had dropped and neither his clan mates. And why the heck didn't he or anybody who knew tell us in those 40+ minutes! So then i told the TD's to get the rest back in the game or reload. But they said that the rest of the players left. So i said wel there are enough other clan members available. But all i got back was the joke; if i wanted to do a restart tomortow while the rest was playing the other events!
This is just gay! When u spend 16 hours in a game u don't need this crap!
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Post by Canucksoldier on Aug 27, 2006 12:22:41 GMT -5
I didn't know he was trying because he never came into YIM which I was monitoring, but he likely didn't do that because he put a priority on getting back into the game. Swissy tried 3 times and rebooted 3 times, you won't see a player in the lobby list(in C4F) for more than a couple sec if he immediately joins a game. Which is probably why I never saw him trying to join with all the open pm windows I had open talking to people about this.
And as to the "fairness" of what happened, speaking as Captain of KC, Swissy could very well have taken 1st place by the end of the game, you admit that yourself. I would be within my rights to demand that the game be reloaded and played out, a 1st place in the ironman would have put KC in the finals were as 2nd place did not. Now I am not going to do that at this point. But please do not preach to me about fairness.
CS
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Post by uastranger on Aug 27, 2006 13:28:54 GMT -5
Everybody still could have been first! But aren't there rules to make sure this doesn't happen? And didn't we follow those rules?
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Post by Gogf on Aug 27, 2006 13:39:14 GMT -5
I think the real question is: "if you drop and, despite your best efforts, can't reconnect or find a sub that can, should you be disqualified?"
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Post by gaiusbaltar on Aug 27, 2006 13:58:55 GMT -5
As a FUN member, I will reply for Popov who don't speak english. He told me that he didn't see any pophop. Just for you to have several point of vue.
Personally, i don't know how many times i've seen people loose ladder games cause they were not able to come back, even if they were able later, no questions then.
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Post by djojoz on Aug 27, 2006 14:02:32 GMT -5
I did not know that there were rules for the TD (players) and the others for simple players?
if it does not find a sub and that it cannot be connected to the game, it must be disqualified
[Fun]ggjohanson
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Post by knupp on Aug 27, 2006 14:10:22 GMT -5
I actually do use this thread to follow the action. Can you guys post in the scandal thread so I can follow what is going on in the ccc.
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Post by Levi on Aug 27, 2006 14:21:45 GMT -5
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Post by rupman on Aug 27, 2006 14:27:34 GMT -5
It's kinda funny that no one saw Swissy in the lobby at all during these 30 minutes. If at least one person saw him in the lobby, I could maybe call this a fair ruling.
Uastranger said he checked the lobby. It seems to me that it is really Swissy's fault for not PMing any other member of either KC or the Tournament staff since he doesn't have c4f, to tell them what was going on. I would have done it after 5 minutes not 30 minutes and an agreed call. He admittedly knew he had problems with c4f and should have had some other way to contact people either through the lobby or TS or whatever. After hearing everyone's side of the story, IMO one of two things should have happened. The game should have been reloaded, or called as it was and agreed upon by the tournament staff. Swissy should have been disqualified. Swissy is a seasoned ladder player and should have some clue of what to do. For example contacting tournament staff to apprise them of the situation. 30 minutes of waiting with no indication from Swissy that there is a problem is just too long in my opinion to not disqualify him.
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Post by Levi on Aug 27, 2006 14:28:59 GMT -5
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Post by Levi on Aug 27, 2006 14:39:27 GMT -5
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