|
Post by deyreepher on Mar 11, 2006 22:17:35 GMT -5
I believe that a playoff system that spans between the actual CCC 3 day events would benefit the whole CCC system. Though there may be arguments for the CCC being a truly epic event where there are CCC matches going on left and right from the 1st event on Friday to the last event on Sunday, as exciting as that is, the real world prevents many people from being able to participate (such as myself).
I think it would be better if the playoff games leading up the semi-finals/finals were played during the lull between the actual CCCs. Other than the Olympics, many sports organizations follow this model. As I said earlier, having all the matches makes the CCCs a truly epic event for the Civ 4 ladder community, but not all are able to partake. As great as it is being a cheerleader for my clan, I don't look good in a pleated skirt and pom poms.
It has also been brought to my attention that the wait time between matches during the CCC is extremely variable. I was asked by a clan waiting for a match when my clan's match was going to end, as this waiting party had been sitting in the lobby for 6 hours. I believe that having all the matches in a span of 3 days is an inefficient use of time. If event playoff matches were parceled out every week, there wouldn't be player burnout.
Another point of contention is the favoring of East Coast US players. The scheduling of the matches favor East Coast players heavily. Someone pointed out that there was a 1 am Sat match, but that's 1 out of 9 matches. With a league/playoff system, the scheduling of matches could rotate to provide a bit more fairness for player availability. Being a student during the day and working nights is sort of a special circumstance, but it would be able to nice to be able to participate in one event, and not be asked on the fly to just sub in.
Reflecting upon this, there is the possibility that a few strong players could try to participate in every event, so a cap on how many events a player could participate in would probably be necessary.
I don't know how many players would favor this model of the CCC, but I know I would welcome it whole-heartedly and would love to be able to participate for my clan as a full fledged member, rather than a replacement.
|
|
romazi
Settler
metabaron
Posts: 18
|
Post by romazi on Mar 18, 2006 5:01:13 GMT -5
let me tell you about my last CCC with the euro clock.
Saturday 1h00 am : event futur 9h30 am : futur is finished, go to sleep. 11h30 am : hurry up, 1h30 pm : work to my job 7h00 pm : event ren
Sunday 4h30 am : I'm waiting for the ren's final, i ask to Holocanthe to phone me when this is finished. 6h30 am : Holocant's phoning me 7h00 am : ren's final 10h00 am : go to sleep one hour 12h00 : go to my job 8h00 pm : i'm subbing alienator for medie's final
Monday 1h00 am : i'm tired, it s finished
I'm not a " hardcore gamer " and i have a family with a little boy. During all the ccc, I sleeped 5 hours, I worked 12 hours and I played 2 long events ( final for the both ) and the medie's final. It was very exciting. How some US people can't play any event? We, euros, can't spend all our time with the CCC. The CCC on 3 days only is the best way for us.
|
|
|
Post by deyreepher on Mar 18, 2006 15:07:24 GMT -5
Here's my schedule for the past 2 CCCs, US Pacific (West Coast) Time.
Friday 11:00 - (Classic Singles Tourney) First Event starts, I am in class. 15:00 - (Friday Future Start) Second event starts, I'm in bed, because I have to work in 8 hours. 23:00 - (2v2 Grudge Match) I'm getting ready for work and heading out the door.
Saturday 04:00 (Ironman) I'm at work and this is my 30 min lunch break. 07:00 (The Classic Big Game) I only have an hour and a half before I get off of work. I can't wait to be done. 09:00 (3v3 Ren) Being it's a Saturday, I'm usually working a little overtime, should have been off 30 min ago, but work has to bbe finished before I go.
Sunday 05:00 (The Sunday Ancient clan Tourney) I'm at work, it's been 30 min since my lunch break was over. I want to take a nap, but have to work instead. 06:00 (Medieval Start) I'm still at work. 07:00 (Random/Random Game) What do you know, I'm still at work?
This all takes place during the week before my finals. So not only do I have work to contend with, but I have studying that needs to be done. If that doesn't make it any clearer as to why I have gripes, I don't know what will.
|
|
|
Post by tommynt on Mar 19, 2006 8:00:26 GMT -5
day waht u want us say?
your day is full u have no time to play civ - oh well
|
|
|
Post by friedrichpsitalon on Mar 19, 2006 10:26:18 GMT -5
I quite agree with the second poster; if we make all our events such that only those with extreme amounts of free time can participate, we are excluding a lot of potential civvers. As it is, the CCC is already a great strain on the schedules of many players/clans. We don't need to take that system any further. Once every six weeks is plenty.
|
|
|
Post by deyreepher on Mar 20, 2006 18:17:55 GMT -5
I quite agree with the second poster; if we make all our events such that only those with extreme amounts of free time can participate, we are excluding a lot of potential civvers. As it is, the CCC is already a great strain on the schedules of many players/clans. We don't need to take that system any further. Once every six weeks is plenty. Sounds confusing what you replied with. Sounds like you don't want a change. But the way I see it, if more clans particpate there will be no room for growth for the CCC. Can you imagine 20 clans playing over a 3 day period? I don't think it would be possible. It would be good to consider the possibility of extending the playoff system. I'm not asking for an immediate change, but for the consideration of it.
|
|
|
Post by tommynt on Mar 20, 2006 19:00:25 GMT -5
The ccc is the ccc - it s the weekend were clans meet - if u want play some tourney - levi hosting now reguarly.
|
|
Juni
Worker
Posts: 137
|
Post by Juni on Mar 20, 2006 19:35:26 GMT -5
I am sorry for you dayreepher, but I think that you are an exceptionnal case if you work so much every weekend. Most of the players can play on weekends. The dates are given a long time before (except when it is moved 4 days before it begins ), so it is possible to manage your schedule in order to play at least one event. In your case it seems impossible, but shall we change CCC system if other players find this one good ?
|
|
|
Post by deyreepher on Mar 21, 2006 12:41:38 GMT -5
Oh well doesn't cut it for me. I do realize that I am an exceptional case, but I am not only taking my circumstances (of work and school) into account.
During the last CCC, I heard of player(s) complaining in the lobby about matches taking too long. So, my suggestion was an attempt to kill two birds with one stone.
Example: As the biggest event only reaches 4 v 4, you'd expect the games to last maybe 4 hours tops, but I was hearing of complaints about the Saturday Ren 3 v 3 when it took over six hours for the TX vs. LKT bracket to finish. I was asked by (I believe the TD), how long the match would take and could not provide an answer.
So while Fried and the other repliers to my post (thanks for the criticism) have a good point, the system works, but it is time intensive for the ladder admins. However, I thought the TDs also did alot of the grunt work and it seemed like there was a good turnout of TDs from the various clans. *I'm sorry I could not, I wanted to at least do that much* So what would be difficult about TDs ensuring that the playoff matches go as scheduled during whatever day during the week? Perhaps having clans, that would volunteer, to run particular events all the way up to the 3 day CCC would also be plausible. If the load is really that much, I believe the Civ 4 ladder community will do their best to step up to make the ladder even better.
God damnit, this turned into a rant. In short, comments and suggestions were asked, so I made a thread. I believe it is a pro-active suggestion and not one where I am asking others to shoulder all the burden.
|
|
|
Post by Avogadro on Mar 21, 2006 15:55:17 GMT -5
Your suggestion is an honorable one. Comments are always welcomed. We have however had CCC with 17 clans and 15 or so events. Were we tired? Ya better beleive it. Would we do it again? In a heartbeat
|
|
|
Post by deyreepher on Mar 21, 2006 16:06:45 GMT -5
Good lord man....that I have to see in action. I don't think there are enough hours in a day for that.
|
|
|
Post by venceslas on Mar 21, 2006 17:05:14 GMT -5
"but I was hearing of complaints about the Saturday Ren 3 v 3 when it took over six hours for the TX vs. LKT bracket to finish. I was asked by (I believe the TD), how long the match would take and could not provide an answer."
Maybe it will be better to read the CCC suggestion post in order to have right hypothesis before beggining an analysis. Your analysis is probably relevant, but you haven't got the right hypothesis...
TXvsLKT lasted three hours(maybe a little more). The problem that was LKT has made a first match which also lasted three hours.
chris.
|
|
|
Post by tommynt on Mar 21, 2006 19:00:29 GMT -5
this was by far the very best of all
|
|
|
Post by deyreepher on Mar 23, 2006 22:45:55 GMT -5
"but I was hearing of complaints about the Saturday Ren 3 v 3 when it took over six hours for the TX vs. LKT bracket to finish. I was asked by (I believe the TD), how long the match would take and could not provide an answer." Maybe it will be better to read the CCC suggestion post in order to have right hypothesis before beggining an analysis. Your analysis is probably relevant, but you haven't got the right hypothesis... TXvsLKT lasted three hours(maybe a little more). The problem that was LKT has made a first match which also lasted three hours. chris. That was a pointless comment. I'm only going off what I was told in the lobby when asked the question. So maybe I got the particulars of the circumstance wrong, but the problem still exists, why not focus on that, instead of nitpicking the particulars?
|
|
|
Post by venceslas on Mar 24, 2006 2:37:38 GMT -5
I agree it's pointless comment from your point.
However, if everybody repeat the same thing, a lie tend to become a verity. And maybe, the day where my clan would have a true problem, admin will say "ok auto-eliminate this team", game last six hours with them.
I'm aware my post was rather irrelevant with the subject from this topic, I do apologize for that.
chris.
|
|
|
Post by Magzi on Mar 24, 2006 3:02:48 GMT -5
While we use a system that includes 'Bye's', I can't see how we can avoid long delays sometimes. The only solution I can think of is to arrange with the waiting team that the next round will start at XX time ... and give a time well in advance. Use points in game (at that time) for a winner if lagging is a problem. I realise this will cause problems right down the line but at least people know they have a set time to wait so they can deliver their child to a sports event, sleep or cook dinner!
|
|
|
Post by tommynt on Mar 24, 2006 7:13:40 GMT -5
Good idea Magzi - together with my no 1. round byes idea - it ll make time problem in ccc much better
|
|
|
Post by deyreepher on Mar 24, 2006 14:46:54 GMT -5
I'm just probably taking all the comments harder than I should. All the replies are valid and have probably opened up my eyes a bit more to the diversity of players on the ladder. Though, I am missing out on the CCCs, it seems like some of the TDs are hosting mini-tournies on the weekends. Thanks Levi and ..A..Chris.
Is Venceslas the same as ..A..Chris? If so, thanks for hosting this weekend's tournie.
So though I miss out on the CCCs, I don't get to miss on the action.
|
|
Juni
Worker
Posts: 137
|
Post by Juni on Mar 26, 2006 9:45:28 GMT -5
No, he isn't.
Venceslas usually signs his posts with is real name (that is Chris) ;D
|
|