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Post by quickacorn on Jan 12, 2008 13:01:49 GMT -5
When I was last here even the BTS beta testers said they were quitting because the game was so bad. Looking at the ladder that seems to be the case. Is there anyone left still playing this game? I see there is going to be a new ladder that uses a rated based ranking system, which is just awesome, but that doesn't change the horrible game play that is Civ4. Has the game play become better or should I just not waste my time on this and wait for Civ5? Thanks.
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Post by Levi on Jan 12, 2008 13:30:46 GMT -5
I can't speak for all the BtS beta testers, but speaking as one of them, I am still playing BtS. Is anyone still playing, yes. Is the new ladder going to be awesome, yes. Has BtS become playable? that is a matter of opinion. Civ4 is very customizable and the community has barely begun to fiddle with it, in my opinion. I see Civ4 slowly evolving, and just about the time the community will have fixed all the issues, they will release civ5.
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Post by quickacorn on Jan 12, 2008 15:12:43 GMT -5
Has the skill gap increased at all? In other words, is it still a grind or can the better player jump ahead quickly? By the way, what part of Wisconsin are you from? Ever heard of Shullsburg?
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Post by MMV on Jan 12, 2008 15:42:51 GMT -5
Civ5???
TOO funny!
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Post by Canucksoldier on Jan 12, 2008 15:58:01 GMT -5
Well I think the initial reactions by a few beta testers has proven to be wrong, and although we are working on a final patch to solve the last of the bugs and any small balance issues, BTS was a good XP to start with.
As to whether there is a skill gap, that is pretty subjective at best, but from my observations of the top 20 players recently, it does seem that the really good players remain ....really good ;p So long as they play regularly anyway.
Yes our new league will use a skill based system using the Glicko2 code as a base for the skill calculations, and an RD value that we can tweak if needed. This will at least remove the weaknesses of the "ladder" system that Cases uses, and of course players that win more than losing will see that better reflected in the long run on this system.
CS
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marr
Worker
Posts: 169
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Post by marr on Jan 12, 2008 16:25:03 GMT -5
To answer simply:
Yes Yes Yes
Civ4 is the best of the series so far, without a doubt, but hey; you can't please em all right?
Skill is amazing, always room to learn as those who can; do and adapt to keep the noobs noob;)
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Post by quickacorn on Jan 12, 2008 16:31:46 GMT -5
If that were the case then people wouldn't have fled this game in a mass exodus and 1v1 would still be the main form of play as it was when this game was first released. The sign of a games skill gap can be measured in the difference in play in a 1v1 setting. The fact that Civ4 has failed in that regard simply highlights the game's serious flaws. I'm not going to sit here and argue this with you since the game has built in features designed to punish the player ahead and help the player that is behind. I would never even remotely entertain the idea of playing 1v1 in this game let alone taking this game seriously, I'm simply seeing if this game is worth even wasting time on just to play for fun.
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Post by Canucksoldier on Jan 12, 2008 17:03:36 GMT -5
Well then Eyes you go ahead and do what you want too, your assessment of what is "civ" is about, is as meaningless as arguing why the sky is blue for the rest of us. And the facts are that there were only two groups that left Civ4 when it came out, the Civ3 players that decided Civ4 wasn't for them, and the people that had severe technical issues with getting MP to work, and left out of frustration. If Civ4 was such a bad game then why is the SP community so huge, and Civ4 was such a commercial success? hmmmmm Believe me the 1v1 game had absolutely nothing to do with it except for yourself....and that is no great loss. If people here like teamers, ctons and OCC's then that is there right to play what the want....perhaps they just aren't as anti-social as you are CS
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Post by quickacorn on Jan 12, 2008 17:46:56 GMT -5
Civ4 was not as big a success as Civ2. SP is always going to be larger than MP. The gameplay issues made many people leave this game and the fact is that you are nothing more than a mouth piece for Firaxis at this point. You have a vested interest in the success of the game because you cling to your little ladder as one of the most important things for you. Whatever, I don't really care. However, stop trying to pass off all the game's problems by saying only disgruntled Civ3 players and connection issues are the reason Civ4's community doesn't even reach 1/10th the size of the AOC community, a game that was released 9 years ago. The fact is that all games now have been "simplified" in an attempt to reach what game designers percieve as a less skilled and less intelligent majority of computer game buyers. The entire gaming industry and the attitude of programmers can be summed up with this one picture. Enjoy:
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Post by Canucksoldier on Jan 12, 2008 18:06:28 GMT -5
Well you can go about your crusade and leave our "small" community here to be happy in it's bliss, it matters nothing to anyone here what you think about us. The very fact that you compare a complex TBS strategy game with a simpler RTS game shows how little you understand consumer dynamics. But you then complain that developers are making games dumber to appeal to a larger audience but suggest that Civ should be more like AOC.....hmmm, guess you can't have your cake and eat it too.
And I certainly don't speak for Firaxis or any other game company, but I do speak for Civ4players. And you have never added one thing to this community so don't let the door hit your butt on the way out.
CS
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Post by quickacorn on Jan 12, 2008 18:08:33 GMT -5
If you feel Civ4 is complex then you more than likely have trouble tying your shoes and shouldn't be leaving your house without adult supervision.
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Post by cryptococcus on Jan 12, 2008 18:41:01 GMT -5
ROFL, not this guy again! How could someone get so wrapped up in a video game that they come here and start threads about how much they hate it lol. I can picture this guy crying in his bathroom about the mean things MLL said to him one day in a game of civ.
To me this just shows that you love civ, but you just suck at it.
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Post by deyreepher on Jan 12, 2008 21:27:00 GMT -5
Well I think the initial reactions by a few beta testers has proven to be wrong, and although we are working on a final patch to solve the last of the bugs and any small balance issues, BTS was a good XP to start with. As to whether there is a skill gap, that is pretty subjective at best, but from my observations of the top 20 players recently, it does seem that the really good players remain ....really good ;p So long as they play regularly anyway. Yes our new league will use a skill based system using the Glicko2 code as a base for the skill calculations, and an RD value that we can tweak if needed. This will at least remove the weaknesses of the "ladder" system that Cases uses, and of course players that win more than losing will see that better reflected in the long run on this system. CS No, our assessment of beta BTS was spot on. The whole catapult issue was over-nerfed with the inclusion of Flanking on mounted units. Spies are banned in the middle eras (at least on Inland Sea) due to the stalemate situation becoming even worse with the advent of a cheap scouting unit that cannot be manually countered. Advanced Start is off to a really slow start. Did I miss any other complaints? Those were the big three as I recall. The spies were banned and Advanced Starts are shunned like $2 prostitutes in Bangkok. Flanking and siege units, well, that's taking out a sizeable portion of the available units so we play on with that imperfect solution that as shoved upon us.
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Post by Canucksoldier on Jan 12, 2008 21:41:16 GMT -5
Well I think the initial reactions by a few beta testers has proven to be wrong, and although we are working on a final patch to solve the last of the bugs and any small balance issues, BTS was a good XP to start with. As to whether there is a skill gap, that is pretty subjective at best, but from my observations of the top 20 players recently, it does seem that the really good players remain ....really good ;p So long as they play regularly anyway. Yes our new league will use a skill based system using the Glicko2 code as a base for the skill calculations, and an RD value that we can tweak if needed. This will at least remove the weaknesses of the "ladder" system that Cases uses, and of course players that win more than losing will see that better reflected in the long run on this system. CS No, our assessment of beta BTS was spot on. The whole catapult issue was over-nerfed with the inclusion of Flanking on mounted units. Spies are banned in the middle eras (at least on Inland Sea) due to the stalemate situation becoming even worse with the advent of a cheap scouting unit that cannot be manually countered. Advanced Start is off to a really slow start. Did I miss any other complaints? Those were the big three as I recall. The spies were banned and Advanced Starts are shunned like $2 prostitutes in Bangkok. Flanking and siege units, well, that's taking out a sizeable portion of the available units so we play on with that imperfect solution that as shoved upon us. Dey I'm not going to argue about the few problems that exist, the fact is that some testers like yourself thought BTS would crash, and it didn't, despite some of the SP oriented problems we have been forced to deal with, lots of fun games are being played, and that is what my statement was all about. And if you were still in the beta test you would know that we are trying to address the flanking problem and get firaxis to tone down the cat nerf. As to AS, there is no reason that it can't be a fun game, and I have no idea why people don't try it after it was fixed in 3.13, I can only surmise that again people are afraid to learn new tricks. And spy's a simply something we can manage with our own rules here, nothing that has to be a game breaker. Just my 2 cents CS
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Post by chuckynorris on Jan 12, 2008 23:45:10 GMT -5
whoever is part of the elite group that hates civ should make a mod, and only play with the mod with the elite group. Only problem is nobody would ever die because the group would be too elite
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Post by Bantams on Jan 13, 2008 3:59:56 GMT -5
whoever is part of the elite group that hates civ should make a mod, and only play with the mod with the elite group. Only problem is nobody would ever die because the group would be too elite there is such a Mod its called C3C dont forget to open the Ports on the Way Out
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Post by cryptococcus on Jan 13, 2008 11:14:46 GMT -5
Well I think the initial reactions by a few beta testers has proven to be wrong, and although we are working on a final patch to solve the last of the bugs and any small balance issues, BTS was a good XP to start with. As to whether there is a skill gap, that is pretty subjective at best, but from my observations of the top 20 players recently, it does seem that the really good players remain ....really good ;p So long as they play regularly anyway. Yes our new league will use a skill based system using the Glicko2 code as a base for the skill calculations, and an RD value that we can tweak if needed. This will at least remove the weaknesses of the "ladder" system that Cases uses, and of course players that win more than losing will see that better reflected in the long run on this system. CS No, our assessment of beta BTS was spot on. The whole catapult issue was over-nerfed with the inclusion of Flanking on mounted units. Spies are banned in the middle eras (at least on Inland Sea) due to the stalemate situation becoming even worse with the advent of a cheap scouting unit that cannot be manually countered. Advanced Start is off to a really slow start. Did I miss any other complaints? Those were the big three as I recall. The spies were banned and Advanced Starts are shunned like $2 prostitutes in Bangkok. Flanking and siege units, well, that's taking out a sizeable portion of the available units so we play on with that imperfect solution that as shoved upon us. You put way too much time into bad mouthing this game. The funny thing is, you spent just as much time talking about how great WIC is and it sucks. You also continue to bash canucksoldier every oportunity you get. It's like bashing your local volunteer fire department. How about you just keep your mouth shut or give up your own time to run the perfect ladder. You seem to know it all, how about you make it happen, but I think you are one who just sits around and bitches, but can't actually take action to solve a problem. More than half of the world is like this so don't get too down on yourself. PS. You remind me of my grandmother bitching about nuts on tv when you can just turn the f**king channel.
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Post by DrShot on Jan 13, 2008 12:37:53 GMT -5
whoever is part of the elite group that hates civ should make a mod, and only play with the mod with the elite group. Only problem is nobody would ever die because the group would be too elite LMAO
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Post by TheBadSeed on Jan 13, 2008 19:41:33 GMT -5
whoever is part of the elite group that hates civ should make a mod, and only play with the mod with the elite group. Only problem is nobody would ever die because the group would be too elite Excellent idea! Problem is, how are you going to get a bunch of "I'm smarter, better, and more pleasant smelling than you" people to agree to one mod? Virtually impossible.
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Post by zzZhenon on Jan 14, 2008 3:44:35 GMT -5
whoever is part of the elite group that hates civ should make a mod, and only play with the mod with the elite group. Only problem is nobody would ever die because the group would be too elite rofl chucky where are you, quit your real job and come back to civ
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