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Post by Avogadro on Jun 15, 2006 15:06:17 GMT -5
Honestly MMV I dont think anyone on the admin council needs a lesson on what it is to be a ladderite. In games we treat people with civility, always report our matches promptly and so forth. Drop it, this discussion is going the wrong way fast. Don't ya bait me, if you don't know me to be honest by now.
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Post by MMV on Jun 15, 2006 15:25:52 GMT -5
Help me understand this please..... You're asking me not to "bait you" with regard to following the rules??? I think you misunderstood - I simply stated that all Admins should "set the example/highest standard of conduct" as stated in the rules (although I posted it, it's actually already there, more like a quote I'd think). I'm not the one that accused someone of breaking rules (I clearly said "IF") nor am I the one that said someone else is. Everyone on the ladder is supposed to treat people with civility, report matches promptly and so forth - those are some of the minimum standard requirements of all ladder members. I posted and tried to clarify for all "members" what the rules were (the Admins already know them). Yes, this discussion is going the wrong way, please don't take it that way. Drop it? ?? I'm sorry, I don't understand your implication regarding that. If you want to talk to me about something personally, one to one, you have the advantage of having my email and my yahoo chat addy available to you.
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Post by Bantams on Jun 15, 2006 15:36:25 GMT -5
This poses a serious issue. Two ladder names (or multiple accounts), if anyone has that for any reason, is both against My.League rules/policy and the ladder rules - I don't think this should be "over-ruled" by anyone. having multiple ladder names/accounts, under whatever guise is being stated, is still a violation of the rules and just an unrealistic rationalization for going around the rules. Admins should set the highest example (another rule) and not use any position they hold to find ways of going around them (yet another rule). Any Admin suspending someone's ladder or posting privilidges for ANY reason, especially about rule-adherence when they could possibly be violating the rules of the same forum/ladder COULD be viewed as an indication of abuse of authority as well as sheer irresponsibility. We don't need "secret Admins" no matter what the reasons. No matter who's doing it (if someone is), I don't want them around as an Admin (since "mere players" get tossed off the ladder for the same reason). Please set the example by your actions and not the rationalization for your actions. i agree 100% for once rules are rules if the admins can break the rules why cant we?
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Post by Canucksoldier on Jun 15, 2006 21:22:51 GMT -5
I think this whole issue is a little blown out of proportion, Fried as a tester, wanted to be able to gather data about bugs in order to try and solve the games issues. Ofcourse trying to do this as F-P is problematic, so he asked the admin team if he can have a alias on the ladder to do so, and it was approved. Yes you might pose that we are letting someone break the rules, but the one account rule is to prevent people from avoiding reporting my changing account and prevent people form cooking games with multiple accounts, we know Fried is not going to do that and is working for the betterment of our game. So we are enforcing the spirit of our rules if not the letter, and I personally don't have a problem with that and don't think at all that it undermines our authority. I'm sure others will disagree, but that's life.
CS
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Post by lporiginalg on Jun 15, 2006 22:04:31 GMT -5
Ofcourse trying to do this as F-P is problematic... CS I guess this is the part that really confuses me. If he's doing it to check for bugs what does he care if everyone in the cton 'guns for him'. Only noobs play ctons anyway so how much trouble could they really give him (okay sorry the majority of cton players lack skill, not all of them). I dunno, it does all seem rather secret police to me but tha's just my two cents.
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Post by Elledge on Jun 16, 2006 8:55:07 GMT -5
I don't understand why he would need another account, and I don't understand why anyone would care if he did make another account. Both sides of this argument seem equally opaque.
EDIT: Part of my confusion is the fact that a rule against multiple accounts seems completely 100% unenforcable. I've never subscribed to the "people with high ranks and reputation get hunted" meme; having spent a fair amount of time in the top 10 and 20, I can't recall a single time it felt like I was getting singled out in a game because of it. So I don't understand why anyone feels compelled to get a separate account. But if they want to, big deal! Why not just accept that people might have separate accounts? I personally have no problem with that.
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Post by SirPartyMan on Jun 16, 2006 9:25:36 GMT -5
A while back one admin asked permission of the other admins to have a second account for testing purposes. We agreed.
In retrospect this was unnecessary and I have taken steps to make sure this doesn't happen again.
SPM
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Post by Avogadro on Jun 16, 2006 18:13:23 GMT -5
Nice typing. especially for a guy with only 1 wing j/k heal up and come back strong.
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Post by smatt834 on Jun 16, 2006 20:01:00 GMT -5
Multiple ladder names are ridiculously cowardly. One ladder name and one non-ladder name should suffice anyone. I am smatt834. When I play ladder games I am smatt834[Elite]. Thats it. Two login names and I don't clear my score and ratings like many others. Another shady thing that I've seen is a high ranked player losing a cton to 9 people (10 player cton). Then before reporting and giving all the people their deserved rank jumps, they cleared their stats and then reported so no one gained anything. Im not one to mention names so take it with a grain of salt and beware there a lot of cheeseballers in the top ranks. There are also a lot of honorable and praiseworthy individuals in the top ranks.
P.S. Skill rating has it's purpose but at the same time, I never look at it cause who cares when you play teamers that ruin it.
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Post by Elledge on Jun 16, 2006 20:29:24 GMT -5
Multiple ladder names are ridiculously cowardly. One ladder name and one non-ladder name should suffice anyone. I am smatt834. When I play ladder games I am smatt834[Elite]. Thats it. Two login names and I don't clear my score and ratings like many others. Another shady thing that I've seen is a high ranked player losing a cton to 9 people (10 player cton). Then before reporting and giving all the people their deserved rank jumps, they cleared their stats and then reported so no one gained anything. Im not one to mention names so take it with a grain of salt and beware there a lot of cheeseballers in the top ranks. There are also a lot of honorable and praiseworthy individuals in the top ranks. P.S. Skill rating has it's purpose but at the same time, I never look at it cause who cares when you play teamers that ruin it. Come on, you don't "deserve" a rank jump. You deserve the satisfaction of beating the schmuck. The numbers are just for your idle amusement. I don't mean to be rude, but in this sense you strike me as what's most wrong with this community.
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Post by smatt834 on Jun 16, 2006 21:26:45 GMT -5
ok i don't cheat and i keep my stats. thats wrong? you make me laugh. and to say that someone who beats a top ranked player doesn't deserve a rank jump is just plain silly. Isn't the whole point of the ladder to climb it? i guess in your world you'd be #1 but if people beat you it wouldn't matter cause they don't deserve to be ranked higher. ok
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Post by Elledge on Jun 16, 2006 21:34:54 GMT -5
ok i don't cheat and i keep my stats. thats wrong? you make me laugh. and to say that someone who beats a top ranked player doesn't deserve a rank jump is just plain silly. Isn't the whole point of the ladder to climb it? i guess in your world you'd be #1 but if people beat you it wouldn't matter cause they don't deserve to be ranked higher. ok No, man. The point of the ladder is to play good games against reliable competitive players. It has nuts all to do with your stats and your numbers.
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Post by smatt834 on Jun 16, 2006 22:11:07 GMT -5
why don't you suggest to an admin then that the ladder get rid of its ladder like system. maybe call it "The Ladder that really isn't a Ladder" or "Case's Just For Pretend Ladder." go put that in the tip box cause you make me laugh.
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Post by Elledge on Jun 16, 2006 22:24:32 GMT -5
Hi, is this a joke?
I've only been watching these forums since December, and I've already seen half a dozen threads which establish that yes, the ranking system is pretty screwy with a game like Civilization, yes, it's meant for 1v1 matches and it really doesn't make sense for teamers and ctons a lot, but no, it won't be changed because this is the only free ladder hosting site that they can find.
Would you rather have some statistics that keep track of your wins and losses, or no statistics at all? I'd rather have some numbers because I like watching my numbers.
But I guess that I would rather not have numbers, if people like yourself don't have the maturity to play on the ladder without making every issue an issue about "i can't get the rank i deserve! help!" or to quote other pet peeves "the rank hoarders won't let me play with them because they are scared i will get rank!" or "it's not fair because all the good rank people play at night my time!" Suck it up. Play for the love of the game, and if you don't, don't expect anyone else to care what you like or don't like.
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Post by Necrominousss on Jun 16, 2006 22:34:54 GMT -5
A while back one admin asked permission of the other admins to have a second account for testing purposes. We agreed. In retrospect this was unnecessary and I have taken steps to make sure this doesn't happen again. SPM And once again SPM gives me another reason to respect him above all other admins. He unequivocally states that the situation could have been handled in a better way instead of just circling the wagons. While having a different nickname could have it's advantages it is definitely not needed for Freid to check for connection bugs. While I don't think much of Freid as an admin, I do believe he is trying his best to improve the game. Thank you for that, Freid. And if you find a way to fix the bugs all will love you and forget this nonsense. Not to worry, Necrominous has the solution to make all content. Let Freid keep his other identity till he has finished gathering information for the warlords XP. then let him choose one name to have and combine his win and looses from both and average the other stats together.
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Post by Canucksoldier on Jun 18, 2006 1:07:14 GMT -5
I don't think Fried really cares about his stats, that's not what this was about in the first place.
And yes the rules are the corner stone of the ladder and it's ability to keep everyone happy as much as possible while maintaining law and order. It's not always a very easy thing to do, and I've often said that we run a house of cards here.
But that doesn't mean that there won't be legimate reasons that the admin team might bend the rules for specific reasons, primarily if it's in the best long term benifit of the ladder to make an exception. And while I will defer to SPM's judgement on this issue, it was made with the exactly this reason in mind. So you can feel free to put our decision under the microscope now, but It was made in good faith at the time. And being human we sometimes make mistakes or atleast have to make decisions that will always make someone unhappy, and I'm willing to accept that, it's part of being a leader.
My 2 cents.
CS
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Post by tommynt on Jun 18, 2006 13:25:37 GMT -5
this discussion is rediculus - we got enough other problems as some1 trying to improve game performance who does that in a weired way.
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Post by ironclad on Jun 18, 2006 13:54:25 GMT -5
Since Admins make the rules... they can change the rules or bend them ... so they have the power to do anything, but they usually always make good judgment when doing so. So MMV I dont know what your talking about, seems like you just want to stir the pot
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Post by Ellestar on Jun 19, 2006 0:21:00 GMT -5
why don't you suggest to an admin then that the ladder get rid of its ladder like system. maybe call it "The Ladder that really isn't a Ladder" or "Case's Just For Pretend Ladder." go put that in the tip box cause you make me laugh. Ctons are a joke anyway. To make a normal ladder, only duels should be counted. Preset teams may have ranks as well in team ranking ladder (team with the same players, one player may be in several teams - like in Warcraft 3).
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Post by Necrominousss on Jun 19, 2006 1:32:43 GMT -5
I don't get all the bitching about the ladder stats being a joke and no good. WTF, it is what it is and it's free. It doesn't have to be perfect, it just has to be adequate enough that the majority of people finish their games and report. And I find it amusing that some of the same people that say rank doesn't matter and they just play for the love of the game also complain the the ranking system sucks.
I appreciate the ladder so much I went gold to make up for all you bust-out leaches out there in cyberspace.
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