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Post by 9iron9 on Jul 30, 2007 5:34:21 GMT -5
make sniffer dogs to kill em or ban em
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Post by tamijo on Jul 30, 2007 5:47:25 GMT -5
aggree
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Post by Bantams on Jul 30, 2007 6:05:36 GMT -5
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Post by Magzi on Jul 30, 2007 6:20:10 GMT -5
Just make your own spies...and have fun
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Post by tamijo on Jul 30, 2007 6:26:52 GMT -5
Not that simple, should not be any unit in a game like this, having no counter unit
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grilla
Worker
CCCAC Representative
Have a banana!
Posts: 165
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Post by grilla on Jul 30, 2007 8:03:59 GMT -5
oh yeah, well i do fine making spies and putting in more spy points.... spies are their own counter part.
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marr
Worker
Posts: 169
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Post by marr on Jul 30, 2007 9:15:38 GMT -5
Spies IMO are like an early unit aircraft. Use the recon button and it does the exact same thing a spy does with less movement costs and sees a whole bunch more area.
The only thing that frustrates me about spies is there 1 movement unless on enemy or friendly roads.
Counter to spies? My suggestion would be an automate option for spys to recon cultural borders. Frustrating to keep moving a spy all over my land trying to catch another spy when I can't see, hear or have any clue of where he might be AND TO DO IT EVERY TURN. Could make it an automission, 'Survelance mission' or something.
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Post by Bantams on Jul 30, 2007 11:01:03 GMT -5
Just make your own spies...and have fun Exactly well Put Mags
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Post by deviousdevil on Jul 30, 2007 12:20:35 GMT -5
Hmm, my suggestion for spies...
That they can only see the tile "in front of them" or not at all, they really should be there to do the nasty.
E.g the tile forward of the direction they moved into the tile.
That way they cannot be as effective as scouts and spys in cities die very easily to counter-spys.
Spys also can be hugely effective for the attacker, people just aren't using them right and I am not going to start giving people ideas.
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Post by cryptococcus on Jul 30, 2007 16:50:36 GMT -5
Spies are fine.
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nicoya1
Warrior
Tourney Director
C4PTD
Posts: 253
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Post by nicoya1 on Jul 30, 2007 23:34:08 GMT -5
agree spies are great when u figure out the system
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Post by Tony on Jul 31, 2007 11:03:14 GMT -5
Spies are not fine and they take away half of what civ stands of. When Civ4 first game out i was rather disappionted by the whole being able to see into cites and borders expanding a million times, this took alot of the excitmentment out of the game. But spies have taken this transparancy to another level.
Allowing them to see in only 1 direction is not really a solution, it just becomes a game of cat a mouse, trying to predict where a spy is and placing your units accordingly is retadrd, and spreading your units out to confuse a spy that can only see in 1 direction is awfully annoying and non civ-like.
I can see the game makers have tried to add an extra dimension to te game which is great, but i feel they have a rather limited understanding of how the game is played out in real life (well the war element anyway), and how quickly some players can abuse flawed game mechanics and others will quickly jump on the bandwagon.
Going a little off topic here, but there seems to be a trend forming here:
1) They develop a game/patch 2) MPers abuse this by quickly working out a "best way" - Myabe takes a little longer to do in a SP environment. 3) A crazy knee-jerk reaction follows
I can give many examples. IMO they would save themself alot of heartache if they get knowledgable game designers in the first place that can semi-forsee how certian changes will be implemented in a real game, not just what sounds good on paper.
Just out of intrest is it possible to see how many copies BTS have been sold? Personally i hope it does well to encourage future development. Although if it does badly maybe they will work on CIV5 rather then more XP's.
For me CIV is a great game, but it is lacking in the war department. There very few ways to attack. Get them early or team up on one person, this is too limited and IMO spies have limited this even more.
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Post by Lestat on Jul 31, 2007 11:23:58 GMT -5
Spyes are like woumans... I luve them both
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Post by DrShot on Jul 31, 2007 12:55:53 GMT -5
agree spies are great when u figure out the system Yes, and , as rilla mentioned, they are thrier own counter. The big issue I ahve with them in early era periods are the real time map and troops reports. Tell me of a successful army in history that did not have spies, perhaps people looking like simple citizens walking in a town. You think the Romans ( or any civilization) had not heard of spies? In older era's the main issue was the quality of the intel, troops have moved, the size of the army not be acurate, the maps and cities need be updated. Simply, how current the spy data was could offset the results of an entire battle! As time progressed the methodology of espionage advanced. Telegraphs were a quick source to transmit data. Steam boats, rail way... Cars! Planes! Well, i hope you get the idea. I had 2 spies in someones land and they received a cult boost(i think it was from a GA , not sure. the 2 spies were both bounced, they had been sitting in same spot , not in cities for several turns. Is cultural expansion a factor or was it just timing?
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Post by Canucksoldier on Jul 31, 2007 14:10:34 GMT -5
That's odd a spy should not be bounced by a cultural expansion as they are invisable to start with, if it happens again let my know and I'll report it as a bug, although a minor one.
CS
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Post by whiplash on Jul 31, 2007 14:21:27 GMT -5
Could it have been an "Event"?
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Post by deviousdevil on Aug 1, 2007 0:32:42 GMT -5
Just played a non-ladder ironman game with a few ladder players and boy spies are just evil if someone whose civ you've trashed just goes entirely espionage on you. I still won, but at one point, I had NO civics as numberonemercurys spies had switched them all. This is despite my having a spy in each city (often more) which often saw 4-5 spies killed when he'd make a real effort. Eventually my privateers dealt with his means of delivering spies, I got to combustion and soon everyone needed to be elsewhere as my destroyers took revenge. The civic switch thing is really evil as it doesn't let you change civics for 5 turns...and it gives a weapon that even poor nations can use against you. NOM was okay to do all this as another player had surrounded me in frigates...and I had no iron
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Post by SweViking on Aug 1, 2007 2:08:35 GMT -5
The civic change can only be to what you are having yourself.
So if you wanna make a enemy change to despotism, you need to be in despotism yourself. In other words, if you want to make your enemy have sucky civics, you need to have/use sucky civics yourself.
But i agree, this should not be a thing a spy could do.
It could be James Bond 007 for all i care, but even him would find it a "mission impossible" to change a entire gouverment from monarchy to despotism. Its just not reality based.
Poision water, cause unhappiness, bring revolt in a single city for 1 turn, destroy buildings, steal information and so on is "possible"
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Post by deviousdevil on Aug 1, 2007 5:14:41 GMT -5
The civic change can only be to what you are having yourself. So if you wanna make a enemy change to despotism, you need to be in despotism yourself. In other words, if you want to make your enemy have sucky civics, you need to have/use sucky civics yourself. But i agree, this should not be a thing a spy could do.It could be James Bond 007 for all i care, but even him would find it a "mission impossible" to change a entire gouverment from monarchy to despotism. Its just not reality based. Poision water, cause unhappiness, bring revolt in a single city for 1 turn, destroy buildings, steal information and so on is "possible" Yeah, well NOM was simply out to harm me, so he was going to be in rubbish civics or given how rubbish his civ was, those were probably his best civics.
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Post by zzZhenon on Aug 2, 2007 16:21:04 GMT -5
yeah i played a ren yesterday and made crypto go into pacifism lol... I was gandhi the GP who.re, so i was in pacifism
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