marr
Worker
Posts: 169
|
Post by marr on Jan 16, 2008 21:18:38 GMT -5
Whip Said:
"I don't understand why you bring Iran into this discussion. There are no plans for arms sales to Iran. As far as Ahmadinejad goes, it doesn't matter if the people are sick of him. He just needs to stay in the good graces of the Ayatollah. The president is elected by the people but the candidates are all nominated by the religious leaders."
I bring Iran into this because it is the reason of Iran being Iran that America is selling 20 Billion dollars worth of war machines to the Middle East.
|
|
|
Post by DrShot on Jan 16, 2008 23:09:38 GMT -5
www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=2008-01-14_D8U5QHDG0&show_article=1&cat=breakingBush is proposing to sell 20 billion dollars worth of American weapons to Saudi Arabia. 1Apparently he hasn't learned the lesson taught in the 80's and 90's, that when you arm people who hate you, you eventually have to go to war with them. 2Do we have to remind him that all of the 9/11 highjackers were Saudi? 3Do we have to remind him that Osama Bin Laden is a member of the Saudi Royal family? 4Please someone come up with some kind of justification that makes this make sense. 5STOP ARMING PEOPLE WHO HATE US 6. STOP BUYING OIL FROM PEOPLE WHO HATE US! 7BUSH, YOU F*CKING IDIOT! 8 1 Consider the lessor of two evils theory. We do not have a lot of friends in the 'Land of Sand' ( no, not Nevada). How many US airbases do we have that are ongoing and operational in the 'Land of Sand' ? How do you think we get "friendlies" in these areas. I do not know to what extent these weapons are... Ships? Small arms? Aircraft? Radar and monitoring equipment? Brand new cutting edge things are not likely to be sold to foreign nations, unless we have a Democratic controlled congress of course ( oh sheet!). Find out more specifics before you freak out, ya freak. 2 At face value that statement is silly. You do not HAVE to goto war with people you arm, it is not inevitable. However, I believe thats not your point. The enemies of my enemies are my friends, no? The Cold war was not called the cold war because it was left unattended on the 'back' burner. It was stealthily ( nice word, eh?) executed over may years with a lot of trial and error processes. Like just about everything the good is not mentioned, the bad almost always is... 3 Great, so we can finally move past the 'inside job' bit. P.S. see # 14 Interesting point you make. Going by the Sand standard we should execute the entire Saudi Royal family for the atrocities procured by OBL. The SRF should do the same outa shame... Yet, lets look back a few years as to who OBL was and is now. He was the equivilant of the families ostricated red headed stepchild, given the boot ( like eiffle from a civ game) from the nation. You think he likes living in the hills above the 5ooo m level? A very unlikely scenario for a member of the Saudi family on his death bed...wouldn't you agree? 5 Lord of War is an excellent movie. ...'that's what i like' 6 World politics is not a game of checkers; black and white(red). 'A very convoluted world lives in does we '- Yoda Sometimes you need to boost the ante to get people to side with your style/politics. Again see # 1 Do you really understand how screwed the US would be without a solid forward base overseas? Do you think the Saudis are unaware of this? It is alla bout give and take we have to give a little or they will take what we want. 7 Yea, it would be nice if we were "allowed" to make a new refinery or three within the last 30+ years. It would help to seek our own resources out: Cuba drills in the gulf near Florida. The US does not. Canada has numerous oil extraction facilities... we do not. The list goes on and on. This is not a geo-political issue. This is about internal US politics. Again it is a give take. Congress ( yes, I mean Democrats)blocks actions under the guise of being "Earth friendly" and has no problem with inflation going beserk while they raise taxes and block any attempt to Bush's tax cuts ( this would aid the economy, something we desperately need RIGHT NOW).
|
|
|
Post by DrShot on Jan 16, 2008 23:17:57 GMT -5
The nuclear connection is that the technology transfer allowed the Chinese to install better guidance systems, hence improved target accuracy, in their missels that carry nuke warheads. Yes, Whip, in the form of cellular technology, and this article was written in 1998. You think they wouldnt have gotten cellular technology from somewhere by now? Come on guys, you're not even trying. Take the blinders off - er the era plugs out. So, let me get this straight. It is ok to sell, give, or let have secret government information or 'secrets' as they are commonly referred to foreign nations because... this is great they will get the information anyway ( sooner or latter). Yes, you played it out in a hindsight matter of fact way, but I see it the same in my 'real time' example. Well your honor, I know I shot him, but he was going to die anyway... ROFL
|
|
|
Post by DrShot on Jan 16, 2008 23:25:07 GMT -5
The plan angered Israel's backers in Washington, but Israeli security sources said this week that the United States would provide the Jewish state with better "smart bombs" than those it plans to sell Saudi Arabia.
This made me laugh, I mean seriously laugh. Anyone else see the irony in all this?
This is chess, the term is 'Mate'.
|
|
|
Post by DrShot on Jan 16, 2008 23:31:21 GMT -5
Please, also, explain this to me.. Why is it that when someone criticizes Bush's policies, your knee-jerk reaction is to point fingers at Clinton? I'm getting a little bored with this tactic. It's simply diversionary. This method of arguing is designed to keep focus away from the question at hand. In this case, the question is about Bush's policy of weapons proliferation to people who incite terrorism worldwide, and breed the mindset that brought us 9/11, the USS Cole, and a hundred other attacks on the US and its Western allies worldwide. Several reasons for the reaction reflecting to Clinton from Bush comments. Number one is human nature. It's a political manifestation of the playground I know you are but what am I... In a more intellectual way, although I presume rarely the root reason, most actions of any president or leaders on the whole are not fully realized for years if not decades. We are still finding out things good and bad about presidents 1-43 changing their legacy. More to the point; the actions of one 'regeime' usually greatly effect the next few years of the following administration. This comes from a variety of reasons. Some simple: pacts trade agreements others not so simple - secret negotiations and oval office parties ( you think Im talking about Clinton I bet, but I can think of a dozen Prez that lived the high life in the Big O office).
|
|
|
Post by whiplash on Jan 17, 2008 12:49:43 GMT -5
Dr. Shot asked:
Consider the lessor of two evils theory. We do not have a lot of friends in the 'Land of Sand' ( no, not Nevada). How many US airbases do we have that are ongoing and operational in the 'Land of Sand' ? How do you think we get "friendlies" in these areas.
Answer:
Ahmed Al Jaber AB KW Ali Al Salem AB KW Al Dhafra AB UAE Dhahran AB SA Doha IAP QA Eskan Village SA Fujairah IAP UAE Jeddah AB SA Khamis Mushayt AB SA Khobar Towers SA King Khalid Military City SA Kuwait IAP KW Masirah OM Al Musnana AB OM Muharraq BH Prince Sultan AB SA Riyadh AB SA Seeb AB OM Shaheed Mwaffaq AB JO Shaikh Isa AB BH Thumrait AB OM Tabuk AB SA Taif AB SA Al Udeid AB QA
Ten in Saudi Arabia.
|
|
marr
Worker
Posts: 169
|
Post by marr on Jan 17, 2008 16:06:38 GMT -5
Mate means the game is over:)
GG America! WTG
|
|
marr
Worker
Posts: 169
|
Post by marr on Jan 17, 2008 16:08:50 GMT -5
In any event, now that the Middle East has weapons up the kazoo, can America actually pull out now?
|
|
|
Post by TheBadSeed on Jan 17, 2008 23:18:03 GMT -5
www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=2008-01-14_D8U5QHDG0&show_article=1&cat=breakingBush is proposing to sell 20 billion dollars worth of American weapons to Saudi Arabia. 1Apparently he hasn't learned the lesson taught in the 80's and 90's, that when you arm people who hate you, you eventually have to go to war with them. 2Do we have to remind him that all of the 9/11 highjackers were Saudi? 3Do we have to remind him that Osama Bin Laden is a member of the Saudi Royal family? 4Please someone come up with some kind of justification that makes this make sense. 5STOP ARMING PEOPLE WHO HATE US 6. STOP BUYING OIL FROM PEOPLE WHO HATE US! 7BUSH, YOU F*CKING IDIOT! 8 1 Consider the lessor of two evils theory. We do not have a lot of friends in the 'Land of Sand' ( no, not Nevada). How many US airbases do we have that are ongoing and operational in the 'Land of Sand' ? How do you think we get "friendlies" in these areas. I do not know to what extent these weapons are... Ships? Small arms? Aircraft? Radar and monitoring equipment? Brand new cutting edge things are not likely to be sold to foreign nations, unless we have a Democratic controlled congress of course ( oh sheet!). Find out more specifics before you freak out, ya freak. 2 At face value that statement is silly. You do not HAVE to goto war with people you arm, it is not inevitable. However, I believe thats not your point. The enemies of my enemies are my friends, no? The Cold war was not called the cold war because it was left unattended on the 'back' burner. It was stealthily ( nice word, eh?) executed over may years with a lot of trial and error processes. Like just about everything the good is not mentioned, the bad almost always is... 3 Great, so we can finally move past the 'inside job' bit. P.S. see # 14 Interesting point you make. Going by the Sand standard we should execute the entire Saudi Royal family for the atrocities procured by OBL. The SRF should do the same outa shame... Yet, lets look back a few years as to who OBL was and is now. He was the equivilant of the families ostricated red headed stepchild, given the boot ( like eiffle from a civ game) from the nation. You think he likes living in the hills above the 5ooo m level? A very unlikely scenario for a member of the Saudi family on his death bed...wouldn't you agree? 5 Lord of War is an excellent movie. ...'that's what i like' 6 World politics is not a game of checkers; black and white(red). 'A very convoluted world lives in does we '- Yoda Sometimes you need to boost the ante to get people to side with your style/politics. Again see # 1 Do you really understand how screwed the US would be without a solid forward base overseas? Do you think the Saudis are unaware of this? It is alla bout give and take we have to give a little or they will take what we want. 7 Yea, it would be nice if we were "allowed" to make a new refinery or three within the last 30+ years. It would help to seek our own resources out: Cuba drills in the gulf near Florida. The US does not. Canada has numerous oil extraction facilities... we do not. The list goes on and on. This is not a geo-political issue. This is about internal US politics. Again it is a give take. Congress ( yes, I mean Democrats)blocks actions under the guise of being "Earth friendly" and has no problem with inflation going beserk while they raise taxes and block any attempt to Bush's tax cuts ( this would aid the economy, something we desperately need RIGHT NOW). I'll go along with your "lesser of two evils" theory, I just dont agree that Saudi Arabia is the lesser of two evils, and I will never agree that oil is the best or last word in energy production, though it is definitely the easiest. The pursuit of the finite supply of oil by the US, China, India, etc. is going to lead to continually larger brawls worldwide in the longrun. Fortifying the economy of a country that supports grass root organizations that preach death to the west is going to lead to more terror attacks in the short run.
|
|
|
Post by thegreatsatan on Jan 18, 2008 13:19:00 GMT -5
I agree I think with you TBS. I'm not for giving/selling any evil people weapons. The Saudi people hate America. They are brainwashed into hating America/western civilization by thier own public education system. (this is why goverment run public education is bad) The 19 guys in 9/11 where all Saudi's. They have all these lame little reasons for hating the west that they use to justify terrorism.
If I was president, I'de give them some legitiment reasons to hate America.
Now they say
"America has troops in the holy land and thats against Islam. They stacked a bunch of guys up in naked pyrmids. And they let gay people walk around freely."
After I'm president they will say
"I saw my mother burned alive by an American jet dropping fire bombs. I drank the water poisoned by American spys and now my kidneys don't work. The Americans destroyed our farms and blockade our imports. And they took total control of our oil fields so now we don't make tons of money to make palaces with."
This would be my first 100 day plan. I'de give the Saudi's some real reasons to hate us. After I bring them to there knees (asuming I didnt break there knees) I'de restore order with some hardcore marshal law.
I could care less about promising the spoiled American people a healthcare system when our goveremnt is going bankrupt. Western civilization as we know it will fall into a modern dark age, just like after rome fell, if we do not defeat the jihad movement.
|
|
capitalistpig
Settler
Those trying to save you from 1984 are leading you into a brave new world.
Posts: 51
|
Post by capitalistpig on Jan 20, 2008 20:58:34 GMT -5
TGS said: Now they say
"America has troops in the holy land and thats against Islam. They stacked a bunch of guys up in naked pyrmids. And they let gay people walk around freely."
After I'm president they will say
"I saw my mother burned alive by an American jet dropping fire bombs. I drank the water poisoned by American spys and now my kidneys don't work. The Americans destroyed our farms and blockade our imports. And they took total control of our oil fields so now we don't make tons of money to make palaces with."
Cap: lol TGS, while I dont agree with you on this particular point, the way that you make it is good for a laugh.
|
|
|
Post by thegreatsatan on Jan 21, 2008 21:28:55 GMT -5
TGS said: Now they say "America has troops in the holy land and thats against Islam. They stacked a bunch of guys up in naked pyrmids. And they let gay people walk around freely." After I'm president they will say "I saw my mother burned alive by an American jet dropping fire bombs. I drank the water poisoned by American spys and now my kidneys don't work. The Americans destroyed our farms and blockade our imports. And they took total control of our oil fields so now we don't make tons of money to make palaces with." Cap: lol TGS, while I dont agree with you on this particular point, the way that you make it is good for a laugh. So Cap, you for arming people that hate us, just because they hate the people we hate more? I'm for bombing people that hate and threaten us into the stone age. I'm for shooting first, and questions later. I don't care that they feel our lifestyle is evil. I don't care why they feel they have to tie bombs onto kids and send them into malls. I'de rather blow them up before they have the chance to set the bomb up. They must be defeated. There will never be peace as long as they continue to impose islam on free people.
|
|
marr
Worker
Posts: 169
|
Post by marr on Jan 22, 2008 7:11:29 GMT -5
Well said TGS! I agree with most of what you said, but bombing them and such I gotta draw a line there, being a liberal and all;) I do hope the countries that terrorists reside in are being effective and instrumental in their efforts in combating Radicals.
|
|
|
Post by gitbliss on Jan 22, 2008 10:19:14 GMT -5
TGS said: Now they say "America has troops in the holy land and thats against Islam. They stacked a bunch of guys up in naked pyrmids. And they let gay people walk around freely." After I'm president they will say "I saw my mother burned alive by an American jet dropping fire bombs. I drank the water poisoned by American spys and now my kidneys don't work. The Americans destroyed our farms and blockade our imports. And they took total control of our oil fields so now we don't make tons of money to make palaces with." Cap: lol TGS, while I dont agree with you on this particular point, the way that you make it is good for a laugh. So Cap, you for arming people that hate us, just because they hate the people we hate more? I'm for bombing people that hate and threaten us into the stone age. I'm for shooting first, and questions later. I don't care that they feel our lifestyle is evil. I don't care why they feel they have to tie bombs onto kids and send them into malls. I'de rather blow them up before they have the chance to set the bomb up. They must be defeated. There will never be peace as long as they continue to impose islam on free people. The only reason muslims hate you Satan is because you have been messing with their countries and lives for 50 years now. It is because you have imposed dictatorships, oligarchies and performed military invasions. What did you expect? them to love you because of your cool lifestyle? The real threat for this world and for Americans is yourselves. You have been brainwashed by total media control, judgement is at an all time minimum and apathy at all time high. Lol you even blamed Bhuto’s assassination on Al kaida!!!! Everything is done by Al Kaida!! Wake up!!!
|
|
|
Post by thegreatsatan on Jan 22, 2008 12:06:43 GMT -5
Hi gitbliss, welcome to the debatin 50 years? Thats it? Haven't the muslims been killin infidells for about the last 1000 years. I think the west has had multiple crusades to repell muslims. The hate for the west goes back way more then 50 years. You are brainwashed by political correctness. Na, they hate America because we let gay people and women have equil rights. Just ask them, they'll tell you. Don't hate me cause I'm cool. Islams nuking infedels is no threat to the world eh? I've been brainwashed? All I see the media saying is how Bush made up the Islamic threat. That the islams mean us no harm. And if we elected democrats, all would be good. You should back this up. Its just a broad statement that means nothing. Al Kaida is just the 1st group I'de suspect. Givin there record of how they treat women that speak out for democracy.
|
|
|
Post by thegreatsatan on Jan 22, 2008 14:09:16 GMT -5
Well said TGS! I agree with most of what you said, but bombing them and such I gotta draw a line there, being a liberal and all;) I do hope the countries that terrorists reside in are being effective and instrumental in their efforts in combating Radicals. I would hate to go to war with them. This is why I would use all my diplomatic skill avalable to get them to acecpt the terms of there surrender.
|
|
|
Post by gitbliss on Jan 24, 2008 8:37:12 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by thegreatsatan on Jan 24, 2008 11:43:54 GMT -5
Thats kinda weak gitblis. Why don't you say, "I'm gitblis and I believe "x" because of "y' and "z". " Then you make statements like this one. and I repond to you with... challanging what you said, you need to back up your original satement. Not tell me I need to go read some artical and it will all make sence after that. Why can't you just make the arguement the artical makes? Even better would be to defend your original statements. If your not gunna stand by what you said and defend it. Don't say nothing. I'll just assume you concede when you don't back yourself up.
|
|
|
Post by whiplash on Jan 24, 2008 15:41:33 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by gitbliss on Jan 25, 2008 3:51:57 GMT -5
What they forgot to mention Whip, is that there is nothing new in that article, no new facts or reveletions, it is just information already published accross a range of media and they are just putting it all together using a new tool. I also find very funny the quote "the extreme leftist George Soros". It seems the US is back in the cold war days where anyone challenging what Bush is doing is either a terrorist or an extreme leftist.
|
|