marr
Worker
Posts: 169
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Post by marr on Dec 6, 2007 13:14:25 GMT -5
Dusty Dragoon Said:
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Post by thegreatsatan on Dec 6, 2007 13:58:21 GMT -5
Lemme break this down one point at a time. Dusty Dragoon said........ Hmmm, interesting, so let me get this right, the government would, say, give each and every American Citizen said amount of dollars. With this specified amount they would go and seek out a school for their child to attend in the hopes they get a good education. Yeah, you pretty much got that right. Come on give me a break, your name states you are a capitolist pig and being one you ought to know better. Do you really beleive this type of system would improve the education system??? Think for a minute before you type. Hold up, so.... you think that because I clearly believe in the superiority of the free market to provide solutions for most of our problems.... you think that means that it should be obvious to me that the free market cannot solve this problem...... hmmm..... You wanna run that one by me again buddy? Eg. Joe Doe's parents get $15,000 a year to put him in school while their income is $50,000 a year. John Smith's family gets $15,000 a year while thier income is $200,000 a year. Under the legislation you are stating, who do you think is going to get into the better school? Even the kid whose dad makes 50k a year will still be getting a better education than he is now. Sure, maybe the kid with the more well off father will have access to an even better education, but what makes you think that isnt true right now? And also why do you think that is wrong? If you bust your ass your entire life, and make good decisions and you become financially successful as a result, do you not have the right to provide for your children the best education that is available?? Your position is that people who are well off should be held down, so that everybody can be the same. My position is that we should stop forcing lower income families to send their children to failing school systems. If you want to run schools like a business where the bottom line is not the education but the almighty buck, then expect the same results. And by that you mean vastly increased efficiency, higher salaries for good teachers, and skyrocketing quality of the education available due to the need for schools to compete for your business. Yes... I see your point exactly, all that stuff is dumb. If you don't beleive that then take a better look at the part of your education system that is, for the most part, privatized. Your colledges and university's. Do people receive vouchers to go to college?? Hmm..... I guess the rest of what you have to say about this is pretty irrelevant, but I'll read it anyways. If you come from a family that is middle class or below and you want a colledge or university education, you are very hard pressed to do so. You hope you can get a scholarship to begin with, and then you must work your buns of to get the appropriate money's to pay for your education, at the same time your grades are not what they should be because you can't give your full attention to your school work. Greed runs business, how much more money can I make if I cut these corners? How much more money will I get if I make these promises? If you turn schools into business's, it won't be the child that is their biggest concern but how much money they have at the end of the year. I'm sorry to hear that you are a communist. You might not think you are, but your dislike of businesses and the free market makes it pretty clear to the rest of us. As to my "ignorance" of the American school system, I suggest you take a longer look at what you are trying to say. My Uncle lives in the southern states and is very well off, and yet when my neices and nephews came up here to vistit for the first time in July, they were amazed there was no snow on the ground and very disappointed. Are they stupid?? Hardly, just not "educated" in the world around them. Soo..... you think Americans are not educated because your neices and nephews were under the impression that Canada is cold. I will grant you that the majority of Americans are uneducated with regard to geography and world history, however I would venture to say that people all over the world are very ignorant of America. There are many who think they know what they are talking about because they sometimes watch CNN. I personally like to think of myself as something of a amature history and geography buff, and I will gladly meet any challenge in that regard. I know the primary exports and gross net products of nations you have never even heard of. As I stated before, and not meant in a mean way, Americans are geographically slowed. They have very little knowledge as to the outside world. Your own President has on several occassions messed up geographically. Its not so much that I disagree with you on this particular point, you are just making the case badly. All I was stating is, if you want the rest of the world to understand the wants and needs of Americans, then you have to understand the wants and needs of the rest of the world. And the biggest "need" of any country is to be recognized. We, (Canadians) are your closest neighbour and yet how much do you really know about us. Most Canadians know who your President is and your past presidents. That is because the United States is a super power. We are involved in almost everything important that goes on in the world. Not meaning to be rude, but Canada is not a major player. There are less people in Canada than there are in Texas. Most Canadians know the names of all the states and their capitols. Most Canadians know the history of the USA and what you stand for as a people. I'll bet you think you know. If Canada truly understood the ideals upon which America was founded, you would not have oppressive taxes and universal healthcare. Socialism fails each and every time it is attempted. It can only appear to be successful for a short time and only when it stands on the shoulders of capitalism. Ultimately socialism fails. Our founding fathers knew this, and tried to create a set of documents that are bulletproof against the spread of this plague. Alas it seems that they underestimated their enemies. Can Americans say the same about Canada? No. Here in Canada most of us just laugh it off. Not such a big deal to us. We have made our contribution to the world and are very well recognized and loved for what we have contributed around the world. And we are your closest neighbour. But other countries don't have the same sense of humour we Canadians have. And to not know who and what they are is a greivious insult to them. I think alot of the States, and it's people. I think you are a great country, but, if you want the rest of the world to think the same, then you need to educate all your people about the rest of the world. The people who need to know about the rest of the world do. The fact that many Americans choose not to know, is a symptom of our larger problem. We are wealthy and powerful, and dont really need to know. wow, layin down the SMACK. Don't be suprised if you just get called an "idiot" by other libs. Your points are more solid then mine are, you spell good, and you use big words n stuff. DD is a stand-up guy. I've played civ with him for years n years. I hope he trys to challange your points. He has an "open mind" which means he's ripe for conversion to our side. The truth may set him free.
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Post by thegreatsatan on Dec 6, 2007 14:06:10 GMT -5
Dusty Dragoon Said: I say America shouldn't care what the rest of the world thinks. We should do what is right and let history be our judge. Great leaders aren't recognized for there greatness till way later. Just ask Winston Churchill, or even "Churchill1" one of the greatest civvers ever IMO. After America falls to the Islams, don't think for a second that the Islams will skip Canada. They might ignore you guys for a while but its just because its too cold up there.
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Post by DustyDragoon on Dec 6, 2007 14:07:27 GMT -5
The people who need to know about the rest of the world do. The fact that many Americans choose not to know, is a symptom of our larger problem. We are wealthy and powerful, and dont really need to know.
This statement alone is exactly what gets the hate from other countries. The arrogance of that statement is just incredible. Wealthy? Hardly, the states is very close to a recession, and as for Canada not being a major player due to our population, I suggest you check again, Canada is one of the largest oil exporters in the world, I beleive we stand forth at the moment and one of our biggest buyers is the States. Want a major oil crisis in the States? Shut down borders and watch what happens. We export more raw materials to the States than what we import and losing you as a customer would not hender us much, however you losing us as a supplier especially right now would hurt the American Economy even more. In the statement before that you claim socialism fails after a short time, please define a short time for me. Canada, though not completely Socialist, has been around for 140 years and has survived quite nicely thank you. The British Monarchy has been around even longer than the States and again though not completely Socialist, has as of yet to fall. You claim to know history and yet you make statements like that?? You state that the USA is powerful. Weapons no longer state how powerful a country is anymore, get in the 21st century. Knowledge is what makes a country powerful. Knowledge is what makes an individual powerful. 911 should have revealed that to you. A small militant group able to bypass all American weapondry and security and attack directly on your home soil. It did not matter how many Nuclear Bombs you held in your bays nor how many Stealth weapons you could launch an attack on. They had the knowledge were to hit you, how to hit you, and when to hit you, and they were successful. And you as a country have as of yet, to catch them. So size and strength don't matter much. Knowledge does. The funny thing is, (if you are able to attach humour to this tradgedy) is Guerilla Warfare is what the American Revolutionists used against the British to win their war. But if you continue to go blindly on capitolistpig, then my only hope is that the rest of your country does not follow in your footsteps. It would be a shame to lose the USA and what it stood for because of such a simple thing like knowledge. Some have compared the States to the Roman Empire, and the simularities are very scarey. And you being such a great historian should know what happened to them.
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Post by thegreatsatan on Dec 6, 2007 14:53:17 GMT -5
I agree with this, I rather know, for exsample, how the solar system was formed., then what little towns are concitered capitols in far off little countrys.
They hate the fact that it is relivent for them in there lives to know about America, but it is not relivent to an American's life to know how many times you have to walk around a table to be consitered married in BFE. I feel the jeliousy. Jeliousy leads to anger, anger leads to hate, and hate leads to the dark side
but true, and thats why you hate it so much and attack it so fearcely
A totally crashed American economy would still be bigger and better then the closest socialist rival nation.
Until enviromentalist assult your oil industry. America has all kinds of oil all over. They just can't drill for it because liberals know that cheaper energy is good for America, and well, they hate America and want to see it destroyed.
This would devistate Canada.
America has all the raw materials we can handle. We just have crap policies that make it so we can't use them. If liberals/communist havent sabotaged the nuke power industry, America would be light years ahead of everyone else. I think a sudden hault of imports would incourage America to bring its own stuff online. I'm all for this.
You country uses America like a cruch. Healthcare sucks, can't wait 6 months, run south, for exsample. You would colaps much faster without your American back up system
They would of fallen If America didn't save them, twice.
I'de say he's right on myself
Time has only changed the scenery, but it hasn't changed the truth. The truth is that this world is goverend by the aggresive use of force. No amount of economic sanctions will stop an army bent on your destruction
It don't matter how smart you are if you're dead
See, didn't matter how smart we where did it. An army bent on our destruction found a way to attack. This goes way way way back in history
If America wasn't sissyfied, we'de a used our weapons to destroy any trace of militant islam. But now we are just a big fish poor out blood in the water
Catch them? we should kill them all! We should make them live in fear that if they mess with the US, they get burned. Every islamic country should be shaking in there boots right now but they all "know" American is sissyified so they are emboldend to contiue there assult
yup, A mighty nation lost to a rag tag group of rebels because they tried to fight fair instead of fighting to win
by knowlage you mean, islamic jihadist, and liberals/communist? Ya we know they want us destroyed.
They fell cause they got sissyified
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marr
Worker
Posts: 169
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Post by marr on Dec 6, 2007 14:58:15 GMT -5
TGS Said:
Why in this present world would Canada fall to "Islam?" We embrace all cultures and religions TGS, we don't 'Smack' them. Our arms are open, our minds are inviting, our government is seperated from most religions, (still have a bit of work to do). How can Islam bring about the Fall of America TGS, what does America have that Islam can take that scares you so much?
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Post by thegreatsatan on Dec 6, 2007 15:03:11 GMT -5
TGS Said: Why in this present world would Canada fall to "Islam?" We embrace all cultures and religions TGS, we don't 'Smack' them. Our arms are open, our minds are inviting, our government is seperated from most religions, (still have a bit of work to do). How can Islam bring about the Fall of America TGS, what does America have that Islam can take that scares you so much? Ya, but to a fundimentlist Islam, its there way or the highway. They have no respect for other cultures. People are put to death in there countrys for converting to christainity. An open minded socity like yours is ripe for the taking because you won't defend your self. You'll just continue to bend to there will until you are broke
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marr
Worker
Posts: 169
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Post by marr on Dec 6, 2007 15:25:28 GMT -5
Defend ourselves from what? Bend to what will?
There is nothing for Islam to respect in Canada other then our laws. Our laws are not religous based, they are our charter of rights and freedoms.
Again, if you live in Canada, what is there not to respect. You break the law you go to jail, what are we defending? Islams of all shapes and sizes can practice any religion they feel in a safe and open environment, what will is there to bend?
We don't have a culture in Canada that needs defending as Canada is mulicultural. We are of all cultures, its part of our freedoms.
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marr
Worker
Posts: 169
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Post by marr on Dec 6, 2007 15:26:49 GMT -5
Tell us what scares you about Islams TGS, share it with us and let it off your chest.
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marr
Worker
Posts: 169
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Post by marr on Dec 6, 2007 16:05:33 GMT -5
TheGreatSaTaN's political litness test (brought to you by... Freedom, without it, life would suck)
1. What is your name???
Marr
2. What is your quest???
To learn, to apply.
3. What is your favorite color???
Red
4. What is the airspeed of a swallow carrying two halves of a coconut???
Overcompensated
5. Are you politically on the left or right???Why???
Center Left, its heriditary
6. What do you like the most about the other side???
More realist, less idealist.
7. What do you hate the most about the other side???
Conservatism
8. If you could live in any country, what one would you pick???
Any Country, I would live in em all.
9. If you had your own mercenary army and could declare war on any country on earth, who would you declare war on, and why???
Belarus, I hate thier hockey team.
10. How did America become the worlds lone super power???
Solidarity
11. Do you think America should be punished???For what???And what should that punishment be???
No
12. What is the best thing about America???
Its History
13. What is the worst thing about America???
Two Partys
14. Do you think the world would be better off if the USSR or the Axis powers became the worlds lone super power???
It wouldn't matter. One nation can only be so big, a collection of nations will always be bigger.
15. Would you support a world government???why??? No, Universalism = Imperalism
OK, this is my new and improved political litness test. It ask opinion type questions, so expect opinion type answers and opinion type grades. Good luck, have fun
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Post by thegreatsatan on Dec 6, 2007 17:15:18 GMT -5
Tell us what scares you about Islams TGS, share it with us and let it off your chest. Well, If I was gay, I'de be worried about them killing me. If I named my gold fish mohamad, I'de be worried about them killing me. If I watched porn, I'de be worried about them killing me. My GF don't wanna wear a burka, so I don't want them to kill her. I think I'm scared of them killing me and my friends. After all, they did declare all out jihad on me and my way of life. They preach death to America (where I live), so I, like a man, stand up for myself and declare war back.
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Post by Bantams on Dec 6, 2007 17:34:06 GMT -5
mohamed was found on the ladder and is unranked yes the teddy bear thing was a bit over the top hell i call my PC worse names than mohammed when it crashes! seems to me PC (political Correctness) as gone a bit too far!
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Post by TheBadSeed on Dec 6, 2007 19:50:18 GMT -5
This thread has raised a few issues with me, so, figured I'd address them, they are in no particular order, just whichever ones I happen to find first.
Canada has socialized medicine. It's not a socialist country. Those are very different things.
The British Monarchy went away with the Magna Carta in 1215. King John signed it, and as punishment, nobody in the British Monarchy has chosen the name "John" since. The Magna Carta laid the groundwork for the Monarchy to be nothing but a figurehead in British politics. The Royal Family, and I know I'm going to offend some Brits and Canadiens here, is good for entertainment value, and to keep rag newspapers in business, but it has no real power. All power in Britain is held by the paliament and the Prime Minister, which are elected by the people, therefore it is not a Monarchy, but a Democracy.
Good point by Dusty
Good point by capitalist pig.
However, you're both wrong.
I was raised mostly in the 80's. My dad was an enlisted man in the Air Force, made about 30k a year, my mom was pretty much a full time student from the time I was 6 until I got into High School. I have two brothers. We lived very modestly. We weren't poor, there were always two cars in the driveway, we always lived in a house in the best neighborhood we could afford, when we didnt live in military housing. There was always food on the table, and we always had cable tv and other junk to keep us occupied. I went to public schools, and studied right along with people who were poor and people who were wealthy. Everything that Dusty claims American school systems dont teach was taught to me. I can name all the states, in alphabetical order, 'cause we had to learn a song about it in the third grade. You can probably stump me on a few of the capitals, but its not because I wasnt taught them, I just dont remember. I can name the Canadian provinces, and locate nearly every country in the world on a map. These are things that were taught to me in public schools. I was a good student, I had encouragement at home to learn. I also had some pretty amazing teachers that kept me interested. I managed to get an academic scholarship to a very prestigious school after high school. Full ride scholarship, but due to a tragic blunder by that school, I didnt get further financial aid, which I needed to live all the way across the country, so I ended up going to the state university instead, who was more than happy to provide me with financial aid, so long as I also swam for them 20 hours a week. I didnt mind, I worked hard, I graduated, I got medals, trophys, and a solid education from a school that I give back to whenever I have spare money, which isnt often these days.
Now, thats my academic history. I now own a couple businesses, which occasionally make money, but not often these days, and I have 2 children in the school system. I started my daughter in the school system in a private school, which turned out to be a disaster, and ruined my view of the Montessori system. This showed me what a blunder private schools really are. They have so many fewer guidelines than the public schools, and during the "voucher" crazy years a couple of years ago, many we actually scams.
In the neighborhood I live in, a couple opened a "charter school" for at-risk teens, got lots of money from the government, lived in a beautiful home on a lake, and housed about 6 kids. These kids were a constant nuiscance, drinking beer, smoking, pumpin' iron on the boardwalk, it was like walking by a prison yard. Three of girls that were housed in this "school" became pregnant. These kids didnt get helped, but the people who opened the charter school sure had a good time. After 3 years of a complete and total waste of taxpayer (my) money, they finally cut off funding and shut down the "school" and the neighborhood got peaceful again.
If the system did work ideally, it robs the poorest people of opportunity. My family could never have afforded to pay more for me to go to a better school that lured the best teachers away with better pay. As a result, I had some absolutely amazing teachers that worked in the normal neighborhood schools. They didnt just instill in me rote memorization of facts and figures, but the ability and interest to question what I was being taught. I currently drive my kids to a different school than they are zoned for, still within the same public school system, because I like the environment and the teachers better there than at the closer school. I am allowed to do this under the current system, at no extra cost to me, save a little bit of time in the morning and afternoon.
The most important thing to remember in the public vs private school debate is that it is the parents responsibility to encourage their kids to learn. Teachers can do it to a point, and they have a very standard curriculum that they teach across the country. It is the responsibility of the parent and the student to take that opportunity and go with it. Privatizing the school system isnt the answer, poor families with a desire to learn shouldnt be handicapped against wealthier families because their money buys them better learning equipment, books, and teachers. It will only excacerbate the situation. They can always choose their own path, but dont take the opportunity away from the poor.
This makes me laugh, capitalistpig. We are not taught a revisionist history that paints America in a bad light. My kids still say the pledge of allegiance every morning, are taught about the wonderful contributions that America has made, and the the times when America has stepped up to do whats right in the world. My kids are also taught that Americans are the biggest consumers of goods and energy in the world, that we are on average, hundreds of times wealthier per capita than many other countries, and that there are times when Americans protest what their government does, and they are taught the why's and wheres of these things. Is it wrong to point these things out, or is it education?
Im gonna go with education on this one.
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Post by thegreatsatan on Dec 7, 2007 1:42:54 GMT -5
TheGreatSaTaN's political litness test (brought to you by... Freedom, without it, life would suck) 1. What is your name??? The Monty Pyrhon reference earns you a 1,000,000 point bonus [Dr.Shot + 1,000,000) 2. What is your quest??? The Monty Pyrhon reference earns you a 1,000,000 point bonus [Dr.Shot + 1,000,000) 3. What is your favorite color??? The Monty Pyrhon reference earns you a 1,000,000 point bonus [Dr.Shot + 1,000,000) 4. What is the airspeed of a swallow carrying two halves of a coconut??? The Monty Pyrhon reference earns you a 1,000,000 point bonus (Dr.Shot + 1,000,000) 5. Are you politically on the left or right???Why??? You're a Volcan? [Dr.Shot + ) 6. What do you like the most about the other side??? If you're saying you liked the rehashed crap out of hollywood, -1,000,000 and a frowny face ((Dr.Shot - 1,000,000)+ ) 7. What do you hate the most about the other side??? A profesional answer +100 [Dr.Shot + 100 ) 8. If you could live in any country, what one would you pick??? That would rock!! +100 and a ;D [Dr.Shot + (100 + ;D )) 9. If you had your own mercenary army and could declare war on any country on earth, who would you declare war on, and why??? My hero.... the removal of a corupt Mexican goverment would do loads for the living standerds there. and +100 (Dr.Shot + (100 + )) 10. How did America become the worlds lone super power??? BOOOO This is one of the most important questions on here. This question says loads about where you stand politically. It gives you, one of the strongest conservitives on here, a chance to blast away. [Dr.Shot + ) 11. Do you think America should be punished???For what???And what should that punishment be??? good thinking. Proping up commies is never a good idea +100 [Dr.Shot + 100 ) 12. What is the best thing about America??? A wishy washy liberal type answer. You gunna preach diversity next? What idea is best? [Dr.Shot + ) 13. What is the worst thing about America??? Ya, those suck. +100 [Dr.Shot + 100 ) 14. Do you think the world would be better off if the USSR or the Axis powers became the worlds lone super power??? But the Swiss got cool nifes +62 points [Dr.Shot + 62) 15. Would you support a world government???why??? I saw the NWO go against the WWE in a SMACK down that was pretty good. I don't remeber seeing any commies or fascist. +100 [Dr.Shot + 100 ) Thx for playin Doc Dr.Shot's Score Faces: ;D Points: 2,000,662
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Post by thegreatsatan on Dec 7, 2007 12:21:24 GMT -5
Hi capitalistpig. I still ain't got this shlt figured out either. The "quote" "/quote"makes it all one big one I'll fix for u TheGreatSaTaN's political litness test (brought to you by... Freedom, without it, life would suck) 1. What is your name??? 0 points and a frowny face the correct answer is your credit card # (CP + ) 2. What is your quest??? wow, best answer ever, +1,000,000 points for being cool (CP + 1,000,000 ) 3. What is your favorite color??? green is such a slimmy color 0 points and a tongue face , I was looking for red, white, blue, or a combo of the 3. Black would of also been accepted (CP + ) 4. What is the airspeed of a swallow carrying two halves of a coconut?? I bet the swallows would love the upgrades +100 (CP + 100 ) 5. Are you politically on the left or right???Why??? good luck, hurting peoples feelings will be against the law soon. Everything you say and do will be on tape, this way when you offend someone thats powerful, they just go to the archives and dig up dirt on you. Or some lawyer fallowing you with his camera will try to sue you if you say (insert racist/religious/sexist slur here, but "cracker" is OK ) The left aims at the destruction of all capitalism. Because America is capitalist, they will stop at nothing to destroy it. +2,500 (CP + 2,500 ) 6. What do you like the most about the other side??? If you mean, how they say they love the troops but then do everything they can to make there lives harder I agree. They are total hypocrites that want America destroyed +1,000 (CP + 1,000 ) 7. What do you hate the most about the other side??? This is because most liberals are highly brainwashed. They don't care what the truth is. They ignore the facts. Thats why they write long paragraphs instead of taking guys like us on point by point. +1,000 (CP + 1,000 ) 8. If you could live in any country, what one would you pick??? Ah, what a happy thought +100 (CP + 100 ) 9. If you had your own mercenary army and could declare war on any country on earth, who would you declare war on, and why??? You'll never convince liberals of this. The brainwashed template they fallow says that Bush is just war mongering cause he's Satan. America is to blame for everything and should be ruled by Iran. Liberals would help defend Iran from you. I hope that if they block your trains, you run them over. Your men will need the supplies and we could use a few less spoiled hippies here. +100 (CP + 100 ) 10. How did America become the worlds lone super power??? You didn't mention our moral values we use to have making capitalism function with great effeminacy +74 (CP + 74 ) 11. Do you think America should be punished???For what???And what should that punishment be??? We are to far gone. Even if there was a big terrorist event killing millions, liberals will just blame Bush and throw this country into civil war. Thus bringing about its destruction. This is there ultimate goal. Think about it. If Bush was as bad as they say, and a terrorist attack would help him, don't you think he'd make some happen +100 (CP + 100 ) 12. What is the best thing about America??? mmmmm chickin crispers +100 (CP + 100 ) 13. What is the worst thing about America??? They haven't read the constitution because they are brainwashed Stalinist. They only use the Constitution, in the rear case, when it helps there argument. They are the ones that tell use how flexible the Constitution is +100 (CP + 100 ) 14. Do you think the world would be better off if the USSR or the Axis powers became the worlds lone super power??? Ya, the commies infiltrated our education/judicial/and everything else they could, in the 60s. McCarthy was right. Now we see the results. A brainwashed, apathetic nation, ripe for the taking. +1,000 (CP + 1,000 ) 15. Would you support a world government???why??? What vision u got cap. +1,000,000 (CP + 1,000,000 ) Thx for playin CapitolistPig Here's your scores Faces: Points: 2,005,174 Congrats, your answers are top notch. You made it into the Hall of Fame TOP TEST TAKERS 1. CapitolistPig 2. Dan Quail 3. Jesus 4. Gandhi 5. George Washington 6. Buddha
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Post by terdaz on Dec 7, 2007 15:18:43 GMT -5
Stop Coke!!!!![/size],tgs ;D
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Post by TheBadSeed on Dec 7, 2007 18:43:48 GMT -5
From capitalistpig:
Just thought I'd point out the ridiculousness of that statement. The framework of the constitution was layed out in the 1780's and 1790's. Socialism didnt even arrive as a concept until the late 19th century, nearly 100 years afterword. Capitalism and the free market economy also had not emerged as concepts during the framing of the Constitution. The Corporation was also not a concept at that point, otherwise there might have been rules for corporations thrown in there. The constitution, in fact, is nearly silent on economic issues, with the exception of taxation issues. Much of our modern economy was invented in the US long after the constitution was framed.
The founders of this country were much more concerned with founding a living democracy that could adapt, change, and thrive through time. They were also concerned that individual liberty was protected to the hilt, and that includes the liberty to be a socialist.
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Post by archon on Dec 7, 2007 18:52:31 GMT -5
Satan,
"I agree with this, I rather know, for exsample, how the solar system was formed., then what little towns are concitered capitols in far off little countrys.”
There is a vast difference between knowledge and wisdom.
What about free trade? What bout international capitalism and the competitiveness of the market?
Care to elaborate? Let me propose a scenario where you would be President of the United States and have a friendly majority in Congress. What legislation would you put forth and what international actions would you initiate in relation to:
1. North Korea 2. Russia 3. China 4. Middle East 5. Darfur Crisis
A general answer by you would be appreciative, does not have to be complicated, just enough to get ur points across.
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Post by Avogadro on Dec 7, 2007 19:14:15 GMT -5
Sanction North Korea Send Aid to Russia Hope the Chinese don't get pissed at me Stay away from middle east and further develop my own natural resources Go in and make a difference in a real area that needs help. What is going on in north east Africa is inhumaine
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capitalistpig
Settler
Those trying to save you from 1984 are leading you into a brave new world.
Posts: 51
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Post by capitalistpig on Dec 7, 2007 22:05:30 GMT -5
I said: The people who need to know about the rest of the world do. The fact that many Americans choose not to know, is a symptom of our larger problem. We are wealthy and powerful, and dont really need to know. My comments will be interspersed throughout Dusty's response to my offensive remarks. Dusty said: This statement alone is exactly what gets the hate from other countries. The arrogance of that statement is just incredible. My apologies Dusty, I intended no offense, but I cannot withdraw a statement that is simply truth. Every single American does not need to know basic information about every nation on earth. I personally choose to know quite a bit about almost all of them, but I am the exception not the rule. Americans do not know, because they do not need to know. Wealthy? Hardly, the states is very close to a recession, Gotta jump into the middle of your sentence here. Where did you hear this crap?? You should do a quick check on the NYSE over the last 4 years. The American economy is booming. It has been slowing a little ever since Dems took control of congress. Investing your money in the socialist America of liberals dreams can be dangerous. Overall though, the economy has skyrocketed under Bush, this is directly related to the Bush tax cuts that the dems are going to repeal. Besides, like TGS said, even an America in recession still holds the economic reigns of the world. and as for Canada not being a major player due to our population, I suggest you check again, Canada is one of the largest oil exporters in the world, I beleive we stand forth at the moment and one of our biggest buyers is the States. Want a major oil crisis in the States? Shut down borders and watch what happens. True enough, that Canada is very useful to the United States, as a supplier of raw materials. But you are kidding yourself if you believe that what we buy from Canada cannot be had anywhere else in the world. Canada on the other hand would be hard pressed to continue programs like socialized medicine if they were forced to supply funding to a military capable of more than coast guard work, which is what would have to happen if Canada could no longer expect the military support of the United States. Canada needs America more than the other way around buddy. Because of the monroe doctrine, the entire continents of north and south america are off limits to the rest of the world. Many of our allies have become weak and spoiled because they know that they are untouchable so long as big bro uncle sam has their backs. We export more raw materials to the States than what we import and losing you as a customer would not hender us much, Really, who else will buy craploads of lumber from you?? however you losing us as a supplier especially right now would hurt the American Economy even more. The American economy is fine, watching CNN does not an economics professor make. In the statement before that you claim socialism fails after a short time, please define a short time for me. Canada, though not completely Socialist, has been around for 140 years and has survived quite nicely thank you. Has the Canadian government been taking 50% of everything Canadians earn for that entire time? Canada did not begin this program until the late 1950s with a system of publicly funded hospital insurance. In the late 1960s and early 1970s the program was completed and comprehensive health insurance was put into place. Go here and learn www.angelfire.com/pa/sergeman/issues/healthcare/socialized.htmlThe British Monarchy has been around even longer than the States and again though not completely Socialist, has as of yet to fall. Socialism has not always been around there either buddy. I dont know if you have noticed, but England isnt exactly what she used to be. You claim to know history and yet you make statements like that?? Not only do I make that claim, your flailing attempt at debate has not convinced me to withdraw that statement. You state that the USA is powerful. Weapons no longer state how powerful a country is anymore, get in the 21st century. Knowledge is what makes a country powerful. Knowledge is what makes an individual powerful. Intelligence is extremely important, but you are a fool to think that it has rendered the ability to win a war on the battlefield obsolete. 911 should have revealed that to you. A small militant group able to bypass all American weapondry and security and attack directly on your home soil. It did not matter how many Nuclear Bombs you held in your bays nor how many Stealth weapons you could launch an attack on. They had the knowledge were to hit you, how to hit you, and when to hit you, and they were successful. And you as a country have as of yet, to catch them. So size and strength don't matter much. Knowledge does. Our enemies claim no nation as their home (woe to any nation that tries to protect them), and they blend in among the innocent within the countryside where they hide. They did us harm true, but America was far from mortally wounded. All they really accomplished was to incur our wrath. You could say that our efforts at reprisal have been unsuccessful if your only measure of success is the capture of Bin Laden. I would say that we have captured or killed nearly every one of his lieutenants, and very likely killed Bin Laden himself. The guy disappears for several years, and then shows up again younger, and with a dyed beard?? I would say that we have been extremely successful. The funny thing is, (if you are able to attach humour to this tradgedy) is Guerilla Warfare is what the American Revolutionists used against the British to win their war. If what you are saying was true, than it would not be funny, it would be ironic. Unfortunately for you it isnt true, so it doesnt matter. The war for independence was not a guerilla war in the sense that you mean. Most of the battles actually took place out in the open in the traditional european fashion. Only in the southern states was guerilla warfare waged against the Brittish, and by the Brittish. The enemies we face now are also not waging a guerilla war, again at least not in the sense that you mean. They are waging an entirely new kind of war. They for the most part avoid fighting us altogether. Mostly what they do has to do with attacking the innocent. When they do attack our soldiers, they do so by planting of bombs beside roads traveled by our vehicles. The only guerilla war against us by Al Qaida ended in Afghanistan a couple months after it started. When they realized they could not beat us, they started trying to scare the locals into demanding that we leave. This also has now failed. But if you continue to go blindly on capitolistpig, then my only hope is that the rest of your country does not follow in your footsteps. It would be a shame to lose the USA and what it stood for because of such a simple thing like knowledge. Some have compared the States to the Roman Empire, and the simularities are very scarey. And you being such a great historian should know what happened to them. Very good comparison with the Roman Empire. Rome fell because of open borders. There were many many reasons really, but it all comes down to open borders and appeasement. The Romans tried to appease their enemies with lands along the frontier of the Empire. They then tried to rely on these former enemies to protect the empire. Romans themselves lost interest in military service, and the vaunted discipline and training of the legionaire eroded. Rome also chose not to require a single language throughout the empire, allowing the peoples within to place the authority of the tribe above the authority of Rome. With the influx of the Huns into eastern Europe, Germanic tribes from all over northern and eastern Europe were forced to fight or flee. They chose to face the weakness of enemy they knew rather than the legendary ferocity of the enemy they didnt know. The nations that had signed treaties with rome exchanging military service for the lands that they now occupied asked themselves why should I die for Rome? I am not Roman, and Rome can no longer enforce the terms of our agreement. Many of these frontier tribes either made right of passage agreements with the invaders, or simply turned inward to their benefactor and joined in on the slaughter. Rome's legions (what was left of them) were hard pressed to stand and fight anywhere. Many deserted to go home and try to defend the towns where their families lived rather than die uselessly in some far off battlefield. The decline of Rome took hundreds of years, and yet when the hammer finally dropped, the collapse was actually rather quick. The eastern Empire survived for quite some time after that due to great wealth, and less foolishness. There are many similarities between what happened to Rome, and what is happening to America. We are not yet in decline (in spite of what TGS will tell you) however, we are at what could be 100 years from now be seen as the beginning of the end. We are faced now with choices about what kind of nation this will be. The choices we make over the course of the next decade or two will say whether we go on to even more greatness, or if we join Rome atop the ash heap of history.
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