|
Post by thegreatsatan on Apr 1, 2007 21:50:11 GMT -5
I think we should have the next get smatt meeting at the strip-club. I think Bunny and Candy can make a few good points ;D
|
|
|
Post by DrShot on Apr 2, 2007 0:03:05 GMT -5
"melting steel with fire requires a smelter or some sort of blast furnace. an ordinary office fire is not going to be this hot unless you live in fantasy world. but why not just listen to the owner of WTC 7 say they blew up the building?" Ok, without going to the ultimate of 'resourced' information websites (seemingly one of your favs) you tube I will go out on a limb here. Fire does not melt steel. Then we progress to 'melting steel with fire requires a smelter(etc.)' so fire is required or not, I believe it is, OBVIOUSLY. The discrepancy is the temperatures, sad this was not BLATANTLY obvious before. Blast furnaces and smelters inject air(0² aka oxygen) for an increased temperature: still based on fire, no? Now, why would we need a structural engineer to talk blast furnaces and smelters, they do not process raw materials and create steel, best I know. Alright, now the fun really starts! 'an ordinary office fire is not going to be this hot unless you live in fantasy world.' - Kid Conspiracy Well, how about an office fire of extra-ordinary magnitude? "Most steel has other metals added to tune its properties, like strength, corrosion resistance, or ease of fabrication. Steel is just the element iron that has been processed to control the amount of carbon. Iron, out of the ground, melts at around 1510 degrees C (2750°F). Steel often melts at around 1370 degrees C (2500°F)." - Jefferson Lab Jet-A - the common commercial airliner fuel has a max burning point about 980C. Steel melting at 1300 C and max burn temp for Jet-A 1000 C It would not be required to liquefy the steel to bring down a building. Consider the weight on top of the building itself, the upper floors. << quick home experiment>> We know how hot a match is, right? well take your outstretched open hand, palm down, hold a newly lit match 4 inches under the palm, note the temp. and remove. Now take another match, ignite the remaining 18 matches in the (standard) matchbook and note the temp. I will bet you dollars to donuts the second produces a far greater amount of energy. This applied to the topic at hand would more than make up for the temperature differentials. "but why not just listen to the owner of WTC 7 say they blew up the building?"- K.C. Well, if there was a conspiracy, why be so concerned about having the buildings fall so nice and perdy? Knock out a side or two, let them fall at an angle and let the carnage really flow! " ok guys, take Down the buildings, but be careful, we have authorization to kill up to 4000 people, if we go over that we'll be out of a job! " - Bad Guy Project Foreman
|
|
|
Post by whiplash on Apr 2, 2007 6:30:24 GMT -5
The "melting point" of steel is irrelevant. What matters is the "yield point". The yield point is the value that results in the steel losing it's elasticity and "yields" to the stress being imposed on it. The yield point of steel does vary with temperature.
I have seen ironworkers (anachronistic term) bend steel reinforcing rods into the desired shape by using a torch on them.
|
|
|
Post by whiplash on Apr 2, 2007 6:35:34 GMT -5
What Dr. Shot suggests is that the devastation would have been much greater had the buildings toppled rather than pancaking straight down. I believe this was the intent of the first WTC bombing where the perps wanted to destroy the columns on one side of the building. The domino effect would have brought down several, maybe dozens of, skyscrapers.
Buildings are designed to withstand the compression of their own weight caused by gravity, not the bending imposed by another building falling against it.
|
|
|
Post by smatt834 on Apr 2, 2007 17:14:19 GMT -5
whiplash buildings don't have support beams in them. they are held up by paper straws. no engineer could ever predict his own building could fall down under its own weight. really hot fires give off black smoke and you can't see them with the naked eye. that's why indians had smoke signals. they even used edible uranium to light the fire. and the bbc didn't report this building fell down 20 minutes before it did. and throwing water on a fire only makes it worse so much for sprinklers.
LOL
but in all seriousness why don't we have any physical evidence to look at and answer these questions and diffrent thoughts on the subject? oh ya it was taken and destroyed. oh well. back to sleep.
|
|
|
Post by MMV on Apr 2, 2007 17:48:04 GMT -5
get some sleep, we'll be there in the morning.
sorry -
get some sleep, the water company will be there in the morning.
|
|
|
Post by DrShot on Apr 2, 2007 18:57:45 GMT -5
Thanks whip, thats the terminology I was after.
Interestingly I wonder about the plane that (#93) crashed into the field. It was being 'shadowed' for awhile(like Payne Stewerts plane, remember that one) by a couple Military Jets.
I have little doubt that the plane was being followed in a precausionary manor. If it gets near a large population area or important objective/target it would have been shot down to eliminate greater casualties.
I think I posted a like comment already, if so, well it must be true as I said it twice ;p
|
|
|
Post by Captain Mitchell on Apr 4, 2007 10:44:20 GMT -5
you imply that sourced information I post is .... "off the wall conspiracy theory" and then go on to post rambling gibberish without ever actually adressing anything important. you also seem to imply that I have some sort of minority or fringe viewpoint that only a few people subscribe to. But according to "..A monumental new scientific opinion poll [which] has emerged declares that only 16% of people in America now believe the official government explanation of the September 11th 2001 terror attacks." www.angus-reid.com/polls/index.cfm/fuseaction/viewItem/itemID/13469From Zogby polls to CNN polls to Canadian Radio polls, the MAJORITY believe there was some sort of coverup. Links to all the polls i mentioned can be found at this hub. www.prisonplanet.com/articles/October2006/141006poll.htmHERE IS A LINK TO ZOGBY. Zogby polls are used and considered accurate by every university on the planet. Half of New Yorkers Believe US Leaders Had Foreknowledge of Impending 9-11 Attacks and “Consciously Failed” To Act; 66% Call For New Probe of Unanswered Questions by Congress or New York’s Attorney General, New Zogby International Poll Reveals www.zogby.com/news/ReadNews.dbm?ID=855I'm sorry you don't agree with my views so why don't you try to refute them instead of just saying they are off the wall. It all depends where you get your information. If you really look hard, you'll find something that supports any point of view. I find it hilarious, bin Laden spoke out plain as day and claimed responsibility for the attacks. It doesn't matter who polls what and what Michael Moore and George Soros think what happened. If you have a news media that keeps drilling lies out like here in the United States, you may believe the government is as bad as you say it is. After a while, yeah, people's opinions change. 9/11 was orchestrated by al-Qaeda, it was our mistake, however, when we missed some of the warning signs. In the 1990'2, the US could have had bin Laden before all this mess. I don't believe it is any one president's fault. Carter shares blame also for leaving Afghanistan to soon before the job was done (which will probably happen in Iraq unfortunately) and Bin Laden got his anger from that. Clinton's error was not getting bin Laden and al-Qaeda when he had the chance, in it's early days. Osama bin Laden got more encouragement from Somalia, where they were facing tough losses against American forces. America was highly successful, but when a couple soldiers died, America quickly turned tail. He learned this weakeness, and he knows how to bring down America: You can attack, and then use the media and the weak-spined Americans to help pull America out of defending itself. It doesn't matter how you attack, if you can make the Americans feel guilty, they will capitulate. 9/11 was bin Laden's doing, but it happened because of failure in the govt. We had plenty of chances to stop it beforehand, and now we are where we are.
|
|
|
Post by smatt834 on Apr 5, 2007 7:49:22 GMT -5
1. bin laden is CIA get it thru yer head. the bin laden family has been connected to british intelligence since 1918. bush likes to vacation with the bin ladens.
2. bin laden can't make NORAD stand down and neither can 19 highjackers. better ask cheney what happened. standard operation procedure is 15 minutes of no contact and planes are scrambled to tail like dr shot says and shoot down if neccessary. where were the scrambles on the first 3 planes? ORDERED TO STAND DOWN YOU SLOWS
3. why would clinton or bush for that matter, stop bin laden when he's always conviently there to do things that bring the mightiest army on earth into muslim lands?
4. WTC 7's fires were small and limited across just eight floors, allied with the fact that steel melts at 2750 degrees Fahrenheit, temperatures not reached in either the twin towers or Building 7, allied with the fact that structural steel doesn't melt until 3500 degrees fahrenheit, allied with the fact that numerous designers who helped build the WTC stated many times on the record that it was specifically engineered to remain standing in the event of airliner impacts, allied with the fact that the owner of WTC7 admits they 'pulled' the building. WTF
|
|
|
Post by MMV on Apr 5, 2007 13:52:58 GMT -5
we added more
sorry -
the water company added more "fluoride" to your water when they were there so you should be feeling better VERY soon.
|
|
|
Post by whiplash on Apr 6, 2007 12:38:22 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by MMV on Apr 6, 2007 15:06:33 GMT -5
LOL - bull-shi'ite!
|
|
|
Post by DrShot on Apr 7, 2007 1:06:05 GMT -5
Just looking at all them titles, oy! ________ "The engineers even said they made the buildings to withstand plane impacts..." a) So they knew the plane were coming too? b) Big asssed planes geared for trans Atlantic flights - just after take off or ceasna's... c) The Third Reich was designed to last a thousand years too, they said so! d) just because some yutz said it makes it so! Hmm, tough quiz there.
|
|
|
Post by whiplash on Apr 7, 2007 7:35:49 GMT -5
On July 28, 1945, at 9:49 a.m., a ten-ton, B-25 bomber smashed into the north side of the Empire State Building. The majority of the plane hit the 79th floor, creating a hole in the building eighteen feet wide and twenty feet high. The plane's high-octane fuel exploded, hurtling flames down the side of the building and inside through hallways and stairwells all the way down to the 75th floor.
|
|
|
Post by whiplash on Apr 7, 2007 7:37:18 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by prettyhatemachine on Apr 8, 2007 9:15:25 GMT -5
There was 200,000 people who kept the Manhattan Project secret. Pretty big complicated and secret program there. this is the problem with foil heads see. u get so desperate u make so many of this lbow arguments that dont gel and dump your credibility in the nutster. tell me. u dont natrally draw any distinction tween keeping a secret of deving a weapon to smite enemies during wartime in a pre-media saturated era vs keeping secret that involves mass butchering thousands of your own innocent nationals? the difference isnt just patriotism. most peeple r intrinsically good. at least beyond wot is needed to identify this dry type difference. this is different flea from the pointlessness of foil heads and plebs throwing scientists or engineers at each other to argu steel theory. different cos its something everyone gets even if they dont know it. AnD why your arguments sux on these mucho threads i have look at. u end only argue 4 yourself as a mans without reason. mans blind to reason can never convince anyone. waste your time here. better to spend figuring why u have no sale.
|
|
|
Post by thegreatsatan on Apr 8, 2007 11:33:49 GMT -5
I'm not expert on fire and steel. But I'm sure burning jet fuel can at least get hot enough to effect the steel. I am sure though that a conspiracy of this magnitude would be imposable. And if it is possable then that means George Bush and friends are increadably super smart or maybe even physic. But keeping the hole thing under wraps in an age of internet media is inconceavable. I watch the hole thing on live tv. I remeber thinking before the towers fell that they were going to fall. Even though the 3000 that died where liberal newyorkers my heart still went out for them. Maybe it was just carma. If those liberals didnt fight so hard to pussify this country, maybe that day woulda been different. Maybe the Islams woulda so feared our retaliation that they woulda never tryed it. All threw the 90s we showed weakness and a lack of resolve. All those primitives in the middle east know is weakness vs straight. We got hit because we showed weakness.
|
|
|
Post by smatt834 on Apr 9, 2007 10:42:28 GMT -5
5,000 plus U.S. troops died from 1959 to 1964, the year the vietnam war officially kicked off. The war was not officially announced until 1965, and the deaths of all those soldiers was kept quiet until a convenient time even from their family members. More than 10,000 U.S. troops have died in the last 15 years in operations in south american countries like columbia. And thats just what has surfaced. To claim that black ops cannot be kept secret is just ludicris. They are related. Black Ops means secret government operation. SECRET not public. To claim that people are mostly good is partially true pretty hate, but there is a segment of humanity that isn't. So better wording would be that most people are good NOT people are mostly good. The dark, evil, megalomanical personality is alive and well in the modern age just as it has always been. If you deny this it's you who should be wearing the tin foil hat. Human history is nothing but a big long story of tyrants trying to take over the world. And when you say that because of computers secrets and conspiracies can't exist is just silly. Tryants can capitalize on technology just as much as the average joe, if not more considering the wealth gap between classes in the modern age. From 1932 to 1972 a group of researchers funded by the US government willingly gave black men syphilis and then withheld treatment for up to 20 years. These experiments were called the Tuskegee Experiments. This is just one example of hundreds in the long line of bad things governments do to people. And GASP it was secret. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuskegee_Syphilis_StudyHUMAN HISTORY IS GOVERNMENT GONE WRONG PEOPLE. Thats the whole point of having a constitution and human rights and all that cause your freedom and your well being ARE ALWAYS THREATENED by government. To think that conspiracies and dark people don't exist is foolish. And in fact holding that view and becoming a complacent boot licker is more dangerous than any CIA funded terror group. Satan, jet fuel burns quickly in the air. It doesn't get super hot for 6 hours. And I'm not desperately doing anything prettyhate. Someone said secret ops are not possible. I merely enumerated a few examples in history of secret programs. Anyway lets just forget the owner of the building has said on record that it was pulled. What would he know anyway. AND BTW, the Manhattan Project was hatched at one of the encampments at The Bohemian Grove. The Grove is particularly famous for a Manhattan Project planning meeting that took place there in September of 1942, which subsequently led to the atomic bomb. The grove is also the place where the Star Wars Program was hatched. I would tell you what goes on at The Bohemian grove but you would probably just say thats a conspiracy too. So forget it. It was great having everyone throw their thoughts around but instead of debate it's mostly just name calling and emotional outbursts. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bohemian_groveGovernment is always good and would never do anything to try to get more power. I hope you enjoy your cushy prison in the coming world government. WHAT THEN WAS OPERATION NORTHWOODS? In this media satured era you should already know all about it according to your logic. Tell me what it was if you even can.
|
|
|
Post by smatt834 on Apr 9, 2007 11:11:38 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by MMV on Apr 9, 2007 17:38:54 GMT -5
Hmmm - maybe a little too much "fluoride"
Call the "water company"
|
|