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Post by Ellestar on Nov 20, 2006 6:39:41 GMT -5
Moallem also countered US and Iraqi complaints about poor control of the long border between Iraq and Syria, saying that Washington was unable to control its border with Mexico and had resorted to constructing a wall.
On Sunday, close to 13,000 people marched through Jakarta carrying banners reading "Bush: Wanted dead or alive for crimes against humanity" and dragging an effigy of the US president.
LMAO
In other news today, USA is being owned in Iraq so badly that now they need help of Syria (!) and Iran (!!!). BWUAHAHAHAHAHAHA (imagine the best "Evil Overlord" laughter here). I thought that it's USA paladin's task to fight evil all over the world and bomb countries until the only surviving thing there will be a democracy. Why the hell "Paladins of Holy Grail" (TM) now need help from "Axis of Evil" (TM) countries?
Well, at least things go well in Afganistan after US intervention. As a result of a democratic reforms, Afganistan illicit drugs production was imroved 3-fold to 17-fold (depending on illicit drug). Real GDP is growing as well, production of ONE illicit drug is equal to 40% of the official GDP and it creates 1.5-2 million workplaces. Surely, all these drugs will help to improve the world stability. Also, Taliban (muslim fanatics who were funded by USA some decades ago so to overthrow civil government) are really happy after they recieved another present from USA. Now they control south of Afganistan and get lots of money from illicit drugs production. You know, evil USSR communists made schools and factories in Afganistan. USA proved that it's the wrong they, instead they improve a production of opium.
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Post by MMV on Nov 21, 2006 11:50:32 GMT -5
the soviet army built schools and factories there?? you're a victim of a still partially closed society and a very biased education system The soviets invaded afghanistan on December 25th 1979 (it was a nine year war which the soviets finally "surrendered to" and left as the former USSR began to fall) They invaded Afghanistan due to a 1978 bilateral treaty of friendship and cooperation that permitted Soviet deployment in case of an Afghan request. Soviet military assistance increased and the PDPA regime became increasingly dependent on Soviet military equipment and advisers. the Soviet troops were unable to establish authority outside Kabul. As much as 80% of the countryside still escaped effective government control. The initial mission, to guard cities and installations, was expanded to combat the anti-communist Mujahideen forces They conducted a scorched earth campaign destroying villages, houses, crops, and livestock They repeated many of the American Vietnam mistakes, winning almost all of the conventional battles, but failing to control the countryside en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_war_in_AfghanistanYes, the US eventually provided assistance to the insurgency group that was fighting the Soviet forces (as did the UK and Pakistan) but it wasn't until 6 years after the initial invasion in the mid 1985 But, In May 1985, the seven principal rebel organizations formed the Seven Party Mujahideen Alliance to coordinate their military operations against the Soviet army. Late in 1985, the groups were active in and around Kabul, unleashing rocket attacks and conducting operations against the communist government (the "Taliban" at that time, was only one VERY SMALL part of the 7 Party Alliance) The toll in casualties, economic resources, and loss of support at home increasingly felt in the Soviet Union was causing criticism of the occupation policy. Leonid Brezhnev died in 1982, and after two short-lived successors, Mikhail Gorbachev assumed leadership in March 1985. As Gorbachev opened up the country's system, it became more clear that the Soviet Union wished to find a face-saving way to withdraw from Afghanistan Between December 25th, 1979 and February 15th 1989 a total of 620,000 soldiers serviced with the forces in Afghanistan (though there were only 80,000-104,000 force at one time in Afghanistan). 525,000 in the Army, 90,000 with border troops and other KGB sub-units, 5,000 in independent formations of MVD Internal Troops and police The total irrecoverable personnel losses of the Soviet Armed Forces, frontier and internal security troops came to 14,453. Soviet Army formations, units and HQ elements lost 13,833, KGB sub units lost 572, MVD formations lost 28 and other ministries and departments lost 20 men Additionally, there were 469,685 sick and wounded, of whom 53,753 or 11.44%, were wounded, injured or sustained concussion and 415,932 (88.56%) fell sickSoviet material losses were as follows: 118 jet aircrafts 333 helicopters 147 main battle tanks 1,314 IFV/APCs 433 artillery and mortars 1,138 radio sets and command vehicles 510 engineering vehicles 11,369 trucks and petrol tankers During the Soviet occupation about a million Afghans lost their lives as the Red Army tried to impose control and millions more fled abroad as refugees. ---------- you're continued posts on this subject remind me of the old "soviet system" of the press censorship, the then VERY biased soviet education system, and what was then the TOTAL "soviet black-out" of these activities to it's general public. basically, the world (and the former soviet government) understood that their exit from Afghanistan marked a major humiliation of the Red Army's military power and is even PARTIALLY attributed to the eventual fall of the communist USSR Although your country is improving on a daily basis, it REALLY wasn't a very nice place before the failure of communism. factories and schools - you really crack me up, LOL!
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Post by Ellestar on Nov 21, 2006 13:29:12 GMT -5
Yes, the US eventually provided assistance to the insurgency group that was fighting the Soviet forces (as did the UK and Pakistan) but it wasn't until 6 years after the initial invasion in the mid 1985 Interview with Zbigniew Brzezinski about how the US provoked the Soviet Union into invading Afghanistan and starting the whole messQuestion: The former director of the CIA, Robert Gates, stated in his memoirs [From the Shadows], that American intelligence services began to aid the Mujahadeen in Afghanistan six months before the Soviet intervention. In this period you were the national security adviser to President Carter. You therefore played a role in this affair. Is that correct?
Brzezinski: Yes. According to the official version of history, CIA aid to the Mujahadeen began during 1980, that is to say, after the Soviet army invaded Afghanistan, 24 Dec 1979. But the reality, closely guarded until now, is completely otherwise: Indeed, it was July 3, 1979 that President Carter signed the first directive for secret aid to the opponents of the pro-Soviet regime in Kabul. And that very day, I wrote a note to the president in which I explained to him that in my opinion this aid was going to induce a Soviet military intervention.you're continued posts on this subject remind me of the old "soviet system" of the press censorship, the then VERY biased soviet education system, and what was then the TOTAL "soviet black-out" of these activities to it's general public. Your continued posts on this subject remind me of the old "USA system" of the press censorship, the then VERY biased USA education system, and what was then the TOTAL "USA black-out" of these activities to it's general public. I already gave you an advice, don't trust any official statements (be it USSR or USA or any other country) because it's inherently biased. Also, never trust school textbooks for the same reason. In our "very biased USSR education system" our history teachers taught us not to trust textbooks if we want to know the truth. Unfortunately, in your "very non-biased USA education system" you teachers didn't taught you to do the same. Although your country is improving on a daily basis, it REALLY wasn't a very nice place before the failure of communism. the soviet army built schools and factories there?? ... factories and schools - you really crack me up, LOL! Army? Not the army, of course. We had a lot of such agreements with many countries. I'm surprised that you never heard about it. USSR built infrastructure in many countries. I don't think you'll find any information on English, but on Russian you can find a lot even in internet. www.cultinfo.ru/fulltext/1/001/008/106/993.htm В 1976 СССР имел соглашения об оказании экономического и технического содействия в сооружении промышленных и других объектов с 75 странами. На 1 января 1976 Советским Союзом построено, строилось и было намечено к строительству 3103 промышленных предприятия и других объектов, из которых 2001 уже введён в строй и успешно эксплуатируется.January 1976 - 3103 industrial plans and other projects built, in construction and planned for construction in 75 countries (2001 already finished). Well, if you want you can translate what exactly we built in Afganistan - ginneries (as early as 1930-1939), power plants, gas extraction, irrigation of a land not suited for agriculture before irrigation, food industry, light industry, roads, ports, university (i think, i'm not sure how to translate it).
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Post by MMV on Nov 21, 2006 17:48:34 GMT -5
~Dude~
I was there and saw what I saw.
you?
(nice cut and paste though from a soviet source - mine was from world sources)
If you'd spend half as much time LEARNING what the old USSR was like and what the world was like (then and now) we could have some intelligent conversation.
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Post by zzZhenon on Nov 21, 2006 22:05:21 GMT -5
This one's for you Whip and MMV: www.youtube.com/watch?v=xk0sTa5ysFI&mode=related&search=The lyrics to the song is the best part ;D Let's Drop the Big One! Boom goes London. Boom goes Paris! More room for you and more room for me! We'll save Australia, don't wanna hurt no kangaroos. They all hate us anyhow... so let's drop the big one now! hehe great song
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Post by MMV on Nov 21, 2006 23:43:43 GMT -5
LOL! TOO funny and just to show that NOTHING has changed, here's an old song lyric from the Kingston Trio from the late 1950's - early 1960's that was written in 1953 The Merry Minuet They're Rioting in Africa (Sheldon Harnick) Intro: There are days in my life when everything is dreary I grow pessimistic, sad and world weary. But when I'm tearful and fearfully upset I always sing this merry little minuet: They're rioting in Africa They're starving in Spain There's hurricanes in Florida And Texas needs rain. The whole world is festering With unhappy souls The French hate the Germans, The Germans hate the Poles Italians hate Yugoslavs South Africans hate the Dutch And I don't like anybody very much But we can be grateful And thankful and proud That man's been endowed With a mushroom shaped cloud And we know for certain That some happy day Someone will set the spark off And we will all be blown away They're rioting in Africa There's strife in Iran What nature doesn't do to us Will be done by our fellow man. ah, you CAN hear it here!!!! shopping.yahoo.com/p:Guard%20Years:1921621637scroll down from the top of the page until you get to Disc 7 it's track/song number #20 - about halfway down the page remember now, this was over FIFTY years ago, LOL! (you MAY have to cut/pase the url into your browser....)
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Post by Ellestar on Nov 22, 2006 1:46:07 GMT -5
~ Dude~ I was there and saw what I saw. you? (nice cut and paste though from a soviet source - mine was from world sources) You saw firsthand that USSR didn't built any projects in Afganistan and you tell me not to trust USSR sources? You saw firsthand that USA didn't fund Taliban so to overthrow Afganistan government before USSR started to help Afganistan to defend against these fanatics? Besides, it's not only "official sources" that claim that we helped many countries, you can find mentions about that in memoirs of our generals who defended these factories and power plants aganst USA-funded Taliban. I don't know first-hand about anything in Afganistan but i trust my family enough so to believe them that they participated in making some of these projects in other countries. Anyway, it was a common knowlege in USSR that we help many countries and teach their specialists. That tells a lot about your censorship if you never even heard about it! Also, your sources are not world sources. Your sources are written on english so they're enemy sources (to USSR). And your sources never tell truth about your enemies because of censorship. You can't read Afganistan sources or Egypt sources or Iran sources or Iraq sources or India sources or any other sources of these 75 countries we helped. So, how dare you say that you use "world sources"? Edit: Ok, i found english sources as well: www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/report/1987/DRJ.htmAuthor: Major thingy, Richard J., The Royal Canadian Regiment, Canadian Army, 4 May 1987 Soviet economic aid between 1979 and 1985 totalled about $1.6 billion. Under the current Five-Year Plan, Soviet supported projects include a hydropower plant, tunnels on key transportation routes between Kabul and the Soviet border, technical schools and road construction and improvement. It is also easy to see that these types of projects also support Soviet military and political efforts. Again, in 1985, there were a reported 5,000 Soviet technicians working on 63 projects.If you'd spend half as much time LEARNING what the old USSR was like and what the world was like (then and now) we could have some intelligent conversation. We could have some intelligent conversation if you'll try to back up your ridiculous claims with at least some proof (like i do). So far you posted only about Afgan civil war (like i never knew about it) instead of countering my words.
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Post by MMV on Nov 22, 2006 6:15:23 GMT -5
your replies to me are very weak - perhaps you could get your husband on the computer to reply on your behalf.
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Post by Ellestar on Nov 22, 2006 7:26:53 GMT -5
your replies to me are very weak - perhaps you could get your husband on the computer to reply on your behalf. By resorting to personal attacks only you admit that you have nothing intelligent to say, loser.
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Post by MMV on Nov 22, 2006 18:00:02 GMT -5
oh my, now I'm in tears -
you're gone - again.
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Post by DrShot on Nov 23, 2006 1:11:23 GMT -5
By resorting to personal attacks only you admit that you have nothing intelligent to say, loser.
Funny. I agree with the ideal of people that resort to personal attacks usually have nothing to back their statements with or lack the mental power to investigate an issue. However, you close with the same attack you decry... unless you are refferring to MMV's win loss record ;D
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Post by MMV on Nov 23, 2006 3:12:49 GMT -5
ROFL!!!
(but of course I used informaton from global sources and personal experience and limited the argument to the set time frame that was originally refered to; but I guess old soviet facts are mostly only good for old soviets - especially for the youth of the former old soviets that were born during the soviet/afghan occupation)
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Post by Ellestar on Nov 23, 2006 5:16:33 GMT -5
Funny. I agree with the ideal of people that resort to personal attacks usually have nothing to back their statements with or lack the mental power to investigate an issue. However, you close with the same attack you decry... unless you are refferring to MMV's win loss record ;D ROFLMAO I closed a discussion with that post civ4players.proboards44.com/index.cgi?board=ota&action=display&thread=1158837413&page=2#1164177967 Obviously, my next post wasn't a discussion. I didn't discuss anything there. I only said that i won a discussion because my opponent had nothing else to say. If you're interested what is a personal attack, read here en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_attack
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Post by Bantams on Nov 25, 2006 10:57:40 GMT -5
;D Happy Birthday Elle
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Post by Ellestar on Dec 8, 2006 5:05:42 GMT -5
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Post by tamijo on Dec 8, 2006 8:15:58 GMT -5
The problem is religious fanatism on all sides ! And the western press tends to forget the fanatism on our side.
Bye this record - is great THE THE : MIND BOMB the record is rather old, but he hits whats comming spot on.
They're 5 miles high as the crow flies Leavin' vapour trails against a blood red sky Movin' in from the east toward the west With balaclava helmets over their heads, yes!
But if you think that jesus christ is coming Honey you've got another thing coming If he ever finds out who's hi-jacked his name He'll cut out his heart and turn in his grave
Islam is rising The christians mobilising The world is on its elbows and knees It's forgotten the message and worships the creeds
It's war, she cried, it's war, she cried, this is war Drop your possessions, all you simple folk You will fight them on the beaches in your underclothes You will thank the good lord for raising the union jack You'll watch the ships out of harbour And the bodies come floating back
If the real jesus christ were to stand up today He'd be gunned down cold by the c.i.a. Oh, the lights that now burn brightest behind stained glass Will cast the darkest shadows upon the human heart But god didn't build himself that throne God doesn't live in israel or rome God doesn't belong to the yankee dollar God doesn't plant the bombs for hezbollah God doesn't even go to church And god won't send us down to allah to burn No, god will remind us what we already know That the human race is about to reap what it's sown
The world is on its elbows and knees It's forgotten the message and worships the creeds Armageddon days are here again
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