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Post by everybodysdarling on Sept 19, 2006 4:22:24 GMT -5
Future is the new Ren. At least for me and some other players who are bored of Ren Inland Sea enjoy this (civ?) era very much. Ellestar was writing a complete guide for future and i dont wannt to steal his show. On the other hand I'd like to mention few basics, which have to be known to EVERY future player. If I miss few things, feel free to complete this by pasting your ideas. All I'd like to show is how to get super mfg. Best civics: - Universal suffrage (from turn 0 to the end) - Burocracy (from turn 0 to the end) - Serfdom (in the build up phase, later change to Emacipation) - State property (all civs except of the phi civ use this from the begin on, phis use Mercantilism untill they get 2 engeneers for some special wonders, and then change to state property) - Pacifism for phis, Organizied Religion for all others in the build up phase, later Teocracy for all Teching: none Save money, buy stuff. After planting all first 3 settlers may try to raise the caulture to 100% for 1 turn in order to get 1sr border expansion. Importnant Wonders: - 3 Georges Damm / Hoover: needs 2 engeneers to be finished - Pentagon: needs 1- 1,5 engeneer (if youre going for a kill) - Space elevator) 2 engs (if youre going for the space) Phi civs (Ghandi) chop/buy factory in 1st turn and get 3 engs from 2nd turn on. While getting engeneers build 1 worker/settler per turn in cap and with new workers work your other cities than cap (you dont need to chop for the cap, its getting 1 worker per turn anyway). City placement: - You don't need any hills, few floods, many grass tiles and few plains is all what you need for super mfg. Work your food ressource or build 1 farm on 1 flood and then build only workshops on all other floods/grass/plains. - Using floods/grass/plain workshops (in this order) your citiy still grows every 2-3 turns and gains a lot of hammers. Use hills only if you have no more workshop tiles or you have some special ressoucres on your hills giving 5 hammers like coal or any metal. - Do not build any cottages!!! You don't need them that badly for money and they only waste preciious workshop space. General hints: - if you think you have neough workers, build 2 more - let your city grow fast using worksops in state property ( +1 food per workshop/windmill) - keep 1 cheap unit in every back city (ahppiness), connect ll lux ressources, later you have to raise your culture up 30-40% in order to keep big cities happy - try to use all floods/grass/plain tiles you find - build fast factories in every city and then plants if you did not get the hoover damm. - fast ironworks in your cap (need 6 fctories) - have 500 mfg with 5-7 cities How to fight, therefore I let others speak...
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Post by churchill1 on Sept 19, 2006 11:41:15 GMT -5
- Do not build any cottages!!! You don't need them that badly for money and they only waste preciious workshop space. - if you think you have enough workers, build 2 more Interesting guide EBD thank you. I wish this was the most busy section of the forums. Alas, it's pretty dead, but hopefully this will spark some interest. So u r saying that your only money is coming from special resources, like gold and dyes (may be you would even advise building workshops on something naff like a sugar, if u already had another hooked?). Anyway, where does the money come from to buy things? Also, you wouldn't advise slavery the first few turns to quickly slave an immediate (or almost immediate) worker in each city? I like the point about workers, it's great. And it applies to any game of civ.
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Post by Bantams on Sept 19, 2006 12:48:29 GMT -5
since its furure churchill no need to do any research i guess
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Post by churchill1 on Sept 19, 2006 12:58:06 GMT -5
I mean where does the gold come from to buy stuff with universal sufferage?
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Post by Necrominousss on Sept 19, 2006 21:57:38 GMT -5
All your cities start with a bank, marketplace and grocery and on top of the you start with 400 gold. You science at zero so the money just rolls in. It's ridiculous.
If future catches on, as is, I would be very surprised.
BTW, I have a mod that starts you out with only 1 settler and 1 worker and your starting city starts out with only one population anda jail, if anyone is interested in trying that. I made a few other changes to improve the balance also.
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Post by notagoodname on Sept 19, 2006 23:28:45 GMT -5
"Universal suffrage (from turn 0 to the end)" I think switching between police state and uni sufferage is better if you are spiritual (ghandi) as you can stockpile gold in police state then buy things when you switch back to uni sufferage.
Future seems to be one of the eras where nobody (including me) knows what the best civ choices are. What are the best civs? Ghandi is nessesary as in every teamer but then what?
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Post by tommynt on Sept 20, 2006 1:34:21 GMT -5
spi trait is unbeatable in fut i guess
depending on map add agri/phi as next best traits
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Post by notagoodname on Sept 20, 2006 2:12:19 GMT -5
I guess Aztec is good then, agg for their infantry helps if you get screwed on resources. America has the only modern UU, the marine and water is the only way to sneak up on an enemy once railroads are everywhere and culture expands so i guess they are in too.
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Post by archon on Sept 20, 2006 8:46:56 GMT -5
BTW, I have a mod that starts you out with only 1 settler and 1 worker and your starting city starts out with only one population anda jail, if anyone is interested in trying that. I made a few other changes to improve the balance also. Ahhh zee true future, not the noob future of CIV.
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Post by Tony on Sept 20, 2006 10:26:49 GMT -5
BTW, I have a mod that starts you out with only 1 settler and 1 worker and your starting city starts out with only one population anda jail, if anyone is interested in trying that. I made a few other changes to improve the balance also. Ahhh zee true future, not the noob future of CIV. Agreed! But its not quite as free-playing as C3C future, but has potential and is a improvment IMO! I know i beat this drum way too often but im gonna say it agian, CIV future is sooooooooooooooo broken im not sure if its even repariable!
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Post by churchill1 on Sept 20, 2006 12:45:28 GMT -5
spi trait is unbeatable in fut i guess With the possible exception of ancient, clever use of the spiritual trait is unbeatable in any era for multiplayer games IMO. But there are exceptions to the rule.
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Post by tommynt on Sept 20, 2006 16:17:07 GMT -5
in ren and indu spi isnt a must - u save 2 turns in beginnign but usually u r fine with starting civics all game after- apart a possible switch into slave or nationhood once in game
but in clas, medi, mod and fut u have to switch all time - in clas and med due to techs in mod and fut due to different stages of game
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Post by churchill1 on Sept 20, 2006 20:00:11 GMT -5
in ren and indu spi isnt a must - u save 2 turns in beginnign but usually u r fine with starting civics all game after- apart a possible switch into slave or nationhood once in game but in clas, medi, mod and fut u have to switch all time - in clas and med due to techs in mod and fut due to different stages of game Switching between slavery and serfdom (sometimes emancipation); organised religion and theology (sometimes pacifism) isn't useful in ren and ind???
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Post by notagoodname on Sept 20, 2006 21:18:36 GMT -5
In ren French are the only non-spi civ i'd choose. In industrious it's England. In ancient/classical it's Zulu.
Other eras don't have civs with UUs overriding the spi trait, so you may as well get the civs with the best trait combos and they are the spiritual civs anyway (ghandi/ramses/brennus/mali/aztec/etc.).
I haven't played enough future to know what the trait order should be. I mentioned civic switching between police state and uni sufferage works, but it is also equally effective to stay in police state and gift gold to a uni sufferage teamate.
So spi really only saves 2 turns if you avoid civic switching, still i guess it's decent and great if you switch civics. Industrious can help with wonders but not projects so it wont get you to space victory any sooner, great people are cheap so you dont even need it for wonders, it's poor with the exception of finishing wonders off. Fin is great, might put that near the top. Phi is awesome, i'd put that at the top (great people are cheaper in future than in any other era). Agg is nice. Char isn't going to give you triple ups (stables are useless), it can give you great generals faster though, still it's weak. Imperial saves time and cost on settler building, although you can buy them anyway, it's good. Creative is totally unnessesary, you get culture straight away. Exp isn't needed. Pro isn't anywhere near as good as agg but it is ok. Org can be ok. State property means that civics will be your biggest cost so org does help.
I guess i'd rate it 1. phi (only need 1 or 2 though) 2. spi 3. fin 4. agg 5. org 6. imp 7. chr 8. pro 9. ind 10. exp 11. cre
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Post by Ellestar on Sept 21, 2006 0:19:36 GMT -5
Also, you wouldn't advise slavery the first few turns to quickly slave an immediate (or almost immediate) worker in each city? You can chop workers, it's better.
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Post by churchill1 on Sept 21, 2006 0:25:08 GMT -5
Also, you wouldn't advise slavery the first few turns to quickly slave an immediate (or almost immediate) worker in each city? You can chop workers, it's better. Of course I would do both. I guess u gotta balance losing those pop against the hammers gained. I would say it was worth it to get extra workers (and settlers - if it's safe to expand). IMO in this way u could expand super quick. I think I've used it to good effect in industrial. I see no reason why it shouldn't work in later eras. But I am no late era expert.
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Post by Ellestar on Sept 21, 2006 0:27:58 GMT -5
Well, generally you can get one worker per turn without slavery. And you don't grow so you can't really slave much. Also, you make some improvements slower with Slavery.
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Post by notagoodname on Sept 21, 2006 20:06:45 GMT -5
Future is an era where you can work 10+ squares each city if you grow them. With 10+ squares you can get more hammers per turn than you could slave, just takes time to get there.
Police state + slavery now and then though doesn't hurt if some cities are getting so big that they are unhappy though. I'll teach those unhappy bastards *whooopish* *whooopish* muhahahaha.
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Post by churchill1 on Sept 21, 2006 20:21:22 GMT -5
I was just meaning in the 1st 5 turns. 60 xtra hammers in each city in the 1st 5 turns would really make a huge difference IMO.
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Post by everybodysdarling on Sept 22, 2006 6:58:10 GMT -5
I wouldnt advise slavery for future at all. In the first turns you always get 1 worker per turn in your cap I always play ghandi and try to get 3 engeneers in cap in the first turns and still am able to get 1 worker per turn. In other cities you get 1 settler per turn with only 1 chop. _And later in game you get 1 modern / stealth bomber in non cap cities and even 1 ICBM in cap per turn. So even when you have much money left you cannot spend it. Therefore I'd advise few super cities which have about 20 floods/grass/plains tiles (massive mfg overkill even for moderns in later turns / these cities are perfect to build some projects / wonders / space parts) and few smaller cities, which are eventually 3 squares away from each other (here you can build units 1-2 turns and finsih production by buying it)
And I really don't think that Civ future is broken, as Tony says. I never played c3c so I dontt know what you liked there better.
- Civ is dependent on ressources in any era. In future it is oil alu and eventually uranium which you always need. - Future rng is as weird as in any other era. Nuking after SDI I made it recently to 2 exlpsions out of 15 nukes, the opponent team to 2 explosions out of 2 nukes thrown on me (had SDI too). - There is no more gold stacking in universal suffrage. - Every unit has its counter. The only 1 nasty unit I discovered so far are GP promoted gunships. Try to beat it with any modern or mech - You wont, unless you build duble star gunships.
The space race is an optional victory condition and may be checked off. - It seems that the space appears always when the game is getting interesting and 1 team is about to die. Therefore I'd like to try few shorter future teamers (60 turns) without space race.
So please tell me what is so annoying on future or makes it broken. Fact is you polay it completely different, not only because of missing tech path strategy.
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