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Post by yilar on Apr 1, 2006 18:01:06 GMT -5
At least we dont have to put up with being told that some player has quick reactions in CIV, as if they do, and long dialogues about just how fast someone can move and how big and clever they are, in c3c you could literaly kill someone just by a) being the host or b) having a t1 connection, alot of games came down to this(especially when you were a newb and didn't know about keyboard stuff, although I always used them anyway) and it was frustrating as hell. Luckily though the player is really good because he's Bruce Lee myth is dead, that sort of s**t was really frustrating in C3c, you just wanted to shout at them to stop talking horse dumplings. The guys got a bloody fast connection and knows how to use the keys you rube. Reaction times are very strictly average in all but 1 in 10,000 people and even then they tend to be so ridiculously slight as to give no real advantage. Hand eye co-ordination does depend on size to some extent, smaller being faster to move. But since Civilisation MP is eye-keyboard co-ordination reaction speed should make even less difference. Good principle from C3c and sperates the men from the boys, multi task be willing to think several moves at once, and then do them as fast as you can. When your waiting for the turn to roll over don't think about what your going to do with one unit plan all your moves, then you look like some sort of God, especially if you've already cued them up and used shift enter. Anyhoo, what I like about CIV is the whole game rarely rests on a who moves first situation, like it could in C3c and if it does your a newb Not entirely true, Beastmaster could beat anyone in speed regardless if he hosted or not. He was the only one who i've ever seen move before alt-u... That's FAST. Also one of the reasons he was so damn good at vanilla 1v1 hehe.
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Post by Tony on Apr 1, 2006 20:46:22 GMT -5
civ4 is a little diffrent in that respect to c3c. Im not sure how often you play civ4, but you can click on the unit, and give it instructions the turn before as a result attacking quickly is alot more common, lots of people can do it. In Civ3 unit movment was hardly well programmed with moonwalks, attacking allies, etc. I think it would be alot harder, to get a rep as "super fast" in civ4 due to the nature of end of turn movement.
Moving fast can be really very key at the start when the units are few and far between.
I would consider myself pretty fast, i played a 1v1, 2 days ago, agiasnt some guy who was not very good but very very quick at moving, he would even leave workers in front of my axes, if he knew the axe was going to get attacked next turn. When i was attacking him, he would always get his stack in start of the turn. All this fast movement gave him a very big advantage. So unless he knew some other trick i dont know about, i can only put it down to being host, i didnt beat him in a single race all game.
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Post by Sidhe on Apr 2, 2006 11:45:31 GMT -5
At least we dont have to put up with being told that some player has quick reactions in CIV, as if they do, and long dialogues about just how fast someone can move and how big and clever they are, in c3c you could literaly kill someone just by a) being the host or b) having a t1 connection, alot of games came down to this(especially when you were a newb and didn't know about keyboard stuff, although I always used them anyway) and it was frustrating as hell. Luckily though the player is really good because he's Bruce Lee myth is dead, that sort of s**t was really frustrating in C3c, you just wanted to shout at them to stop talking horse dumplings. The guys got a bloody fast connection and knows how to use the keys you rube. Reaction times are very strictly average in all but 1 in 10,000 people and even then they tend to be so ridiculously slight as to give no real advantage. Hand eye co-ordination does depend on size to some extent, smaller being faster to move. But since Civilisation MP is eye-keyboard co-ordination reaction speed should make even less difference. Good principle from C3c and separates the men from the boys, multi task be willing to think several moves at once, and then do them as fast as you can. When your waiting for the turn to roll over don't think about what your going to do with one unit plan all your moves, then you look like some sort of God, especially if you've already cued them up and used shift enter. Anyhoo, what I like about CIV is the whole game rarely rests on a who moves first situation, like it could in C3c and if it does your a newb Not entirely true, Beastmaster could beat anyone in speed regardless if he hosted or not. He was the only one who I've ever seen move before alt-u... That's FAST. Also one of the reasons he was so damn good at vanilla 1v1 hehe. Did you ever get him to try a reaction test? Was he significantly faster? I would be interested to know if he is one of those 1 in 10,000 people who have faster than average reactions or if it was just his T1 connection? Maybe you should ask him, I believe he still plays C3c? I don't dismiss the possibility at all since the best CIV players on the ladder play it's statistically unlikely that people with significantly fast reactions could not gain advantage; however to me that's not what strategy is about, that's what real-time command and conquer games are about, to me games of strategy, i.e chess, bridge, Othello, risk, settlers(the board game) and games that I would call strategy do not rely on reflexes, and neither thank god does CIV, the very idea that your a better strategy game player because of your reactions is laughable ;D Oh and btw, even if he does have faster reactions the difference is in tenths even hundreds of a second at best, if someones consistently faster than someone else though it would suggest that something non human is involved in most case, i.e. connection speed. Anyone who can move faster than ALT-U is going to flag up all sorts of warning signals, this should not be possible because it means your moving faster than the computer, if he's doing that then he has faster than AI reactions and that's inhuman. I would imagine he had a ridiculously fast connection and PC and the resultant lag on any computer unless it was of similar speed gave him the edge, but I Wouldn't stake my rep on that, the only other thing I could imagine would be some sort of cheat but I seriously doubt that somehow. If it is pure reactions I would be surprised. People who are fast are not consistently so, and reaction speed in strat games is heavily tied with predictive thinking as well. civ4 is a little diffrent in that respect to c3c. Im not sure how often you play civ4, but you can click on the unit, and give it instructions the turn before as a result attacking quickly is alot more common, lots of people can do it. In Civ3 unit movment was hardly well programmed with moonwalks, attacking allies, etc. I think it would be alot harder, to get a rep as "super fast" in civ4 due to the nature of end of turn movement. Moving fast can be really very key at the start when the units are few and far between. I would consider myself pretty fast, i played a 1v1, 2 days ago, agiasnt some guy who was not very good but very very quick at moving, he would even leave workers in front of my axes, if he knew the axe was going to get attacked next turn. When i was attacking him, he would always get his stack in start of the turn. All this fast movement gave him a very big advantage. So unless he knew some other trick i don't know about, i can only put it down to being host, i didn't beat him in a single race all game. Again if someone can consistently out-move you it's more likely to be about his connection than his eye hand dexterity.
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Post by MMV on Apr 3, 2006 10:49:14 GMT -5
there's a LOT more to it than connectivity and hand-eye coordination.
game focus, concentration level, and single-tasking on a certain move is the extra "touch" that will get you control of that "first unit you want to move" win every time.
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Post by Sidhe on Apr 3, 2006 14:33:51 GMT -5
Personally I like to plan all my moves and then focus on the priority move at the roll over, usually just queing up automoves will leave you with a nice quick blockade or counter, but saving an odd unit for the unexpected is good too or just a single move and counter after they move, whatever works at the time. Speed in CIV is about connection and that's it, if your the host you can beat someone provided you have a simillar or better connection and some other player isn't lagging on you, I have had my arse kicked in moving consistently as host, even with the mash keys manouver and this simply cannot possibly be reaction times because, the instruction to move comes before the start of the turn pretty much, what happens when someone consistently out moves you is due to relative connection not the will of the warrior, or Kung fu mantras or any other mystic bullnuts
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ty
Settler
Posts: 1
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Post by ty on Apr 17, 2006 16:22:41 GMT -5
Its very frustrating, everyone are moving faster then me at the start of turns. There should be a auto-move-in-start-of-turn command to deal with this, since its not about strategy at all. This is something that belong in real time startegy games where the fastest clicker wins.
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Post by friedrichpsitalon on Apr 19, 2006 7:46:23 GMT -5
I'm interested in how people see this in light of the change in the most recent patch.
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Post by Canucksoldier on Apr 24, 2006 0:53:47 GMT -5
Its very frustrating, everyone are moving faster then me at the start of turns. There should be a auto-move-in-start-of-turn command to deal with this, since its not about strategy at all. This is something that belong in real time startegy games where the fastest clicker wins. I understand that you it can be frustrating, but you can't be "double moved" you have atleast 6 sec's to beat a unit that moved at the end of the last turn. If it's a simple problem that you are doing other things while people are moving there units, well that is the balance we except to use simutaneous moves, reverting to turn based is not a solution IMHO, I played turn based MP in the first version of Civ2MGE and if you think games take a long time now, they'd take eons if we used a turn based system again. Now with the 1.61 patch atleast the advantage to hosts and anyone else in a slot above you is gone. Now any moves that happen within the same quarter second are decided by a roll of the dice not to the highest slot like before. CS
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Post by churchill1 on Apr 24, 2006 11:15:01 GMT -5
i've heard of players bypassing the 6 second rule. can anyone comment on this?
if it's true it should be made common knowledge otherwise certain peeps will have an advantage over others
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Post by Canucksoldier on May 1, 2006 22:54:37 GMT -5
i've heard of players bypassing the 6 second rule. can anyone comment on this? if it's true it should be made common knowledge otherwise certain peeps will have an advantage over others I have not,but if you have saves showing this please send them to me. CS
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Post by Tony on Dec 26, 2007 20:04:08 GMT -5
OMG, i cant believe its taken me this long to work out how this is done.
I guess something started clicking when someone attacked 2 of my units last week before i could move 1 - and im normally not that slow - Makes a HUGE differance on tight maps
The devs should really bring back explore being able to take cites, atleast that stopped this stuff.
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