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Post by Canucksoldier on Jun 25, 2007 11:43:59 GMT -5
As MMV has pointed out the Rules of the ladder are easy to find, and I might add that your activation email from Civ4players politely asks every new member to read the rules. Where stands anything about 24 hours? there just stands that u should report direct after match and before starting other matches...and noone tells me to register or ready any forums...thats what i mean The rule is that people should report right away. People DO NOT have 24 hours to report. 24 hours is what we ask players to wait and then file a non-report, so as not to waste the admins time on reports that are done 2 hours after a game etc. If people are telling you that they have 24hrs to report they are incorrect. But some people do like to push the limits. CS
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Post by Canucksoldier on Jun 25, 2007 11:52:24 GMT -5
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Post by MMV on Jun 25, 2007 14:07:43 GMT -5
Where stands anything about 24 hours? there just stands that u should report direct after match and before starting other matches...and noone tells me to register or ready any forums...thats what i mean the only mention of 24 hours in the entire rule is in the same rules section I cut/pasted, in the paragraph just below the one I didn't cut/paste here - sorry " If, however, you do not see them online after sending your Email reminder you should give them 24 hours to post their loss before submitting an unreported match claim against them in order to give them time to receive your E-mail[/i]" Rudi, I'm not picking on your or making fun of you in ANY way, it's just funny to me that the ones you are referring to ONLY pick out the part of the rules that are seemingly CONVENIENT to them at the time, as they choose to understand them - lol! So, it's NOT that they have 24 hours to report, but that YOU should wait 24 hours after your courtesy reminder to them for NOT reporting. And what can you do until then? Just as I did in the game you hosted this morning. Don't play with them. Good example: After advising you of "that" players ladder "status" I did not yell or scream for the guy to be booted, only that he had a history of this issue and I'd go play another vice wasting time with him - so I left. A lot of people believe that if more players "didn't tolerate" the freshly documented non-reporter, there'd be less of them Others say "big deal" All he had to do to clear that up was "communicate" with an admin - but he said he wouldn't waste his time. I won't waste mine either, lol!
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Post by kurdape on Oct 26, 2007 21:34:20 GMT -5
Boxed for a week, and for no good reason. I protest being boxed, and get no response from admins. There is no way to overturn silly decisions. I dont get to face my accuser. I dont even get an email as to why i am boxed. I have written emails to dta, I have posted in the forum without sucess. WTF, I report every damm time, and this is what I get. I apreciate that you admins are not paid for what you do, but if you volunteer to do it, do it right.
I say bullnuts!
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Post by Canucksoldier on Oct 26, 2007 21:50:38 GMT -5
Boxed for a week, and for no good reason. I protest being boxed, and get no response from admins. There is no way to overturn silly decisions. I dont get to face my accuser. I dont even get an email as to why i am boxed. I have written emails to dta, I have posted in the forum without sucess. WTF, I report every damm time, and this is what I get. I apreciate that you admins are not paid for what you do, but if you volunteer to do it, do it right. I say bullnuts! I can't access the myleague page from work, but why don't you take a look at the daily reports, it is standard practise to put the reason in the daily reports when an Admin penalizes a player. CS
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Post by stetson on Oct 26, 2007 22:13:19 GMT -5
In Ape's defense, I'm an attorney, and I can't even understand what the reason for his 7-day suspension is. (The sentence in the Daily Reports doesn't really make sense). Therefore, I can empathise with him. I have always known Ape to have the utmost sportsmanship, and I don't think there is anyone that is going to deny that. I would just suggest that the rules are designate to promote sportsmanship, (not to alienate and give the person no real source of appeal). In other words, I think Ape wants an appeal and quickly . Thank you for your cooperation. Again, we do appreciate very much all the Admins hard work in running the ladder. (Just need to make sure we don't persecute the righteous ).
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Post by kurdape on Oct 27, 2007 7:49:55 GMT -5
Ladder News [Suspended]Apester gets 7 days in the penalty box Self reported NR set to 10 of 10,Moineau.
Ok, this the the news posted. Who non reported me and why. Did i report late, did he nr me early. Did he nr me when I was a sub. Where is the list of non reports. Do I get to face my accuser?
What is a "Self reported NR" and is that 10 nr over 1900 games? Wow, some one gets 10 nr in 1900 games and there is a penalty, I should get a metal for good sportsmanship. Not boxed. What a load of bull nuts.
Here it is going on 3 days boxed, and I still dont have an answer from an admin.
Great jop 99% of the time guys, this is the 1% of the time where you need to do the right thing quickly, and you are droppin the ball.
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Post by cryptococcus on Oct 27, 2007 8:27:26 GMT -5
ROFL, check your email.
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Post by kurdape on Oct 27, 2007 8:49:12 GMT -5
Crypto, if you read my previous posts, which you did because you made fun of it too, you would know the admins have not replied to my emails, nor given me an explanation of the boxing. I have repled to all nr filed on me with either an apology for not reporting, and did so immediately, or asking for proof of my nr. I have never recieved a reply to any of these emails.
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moineau
Warrior
Administrator
Posts: 330
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Post by moineau on Oct 27, 2007 9:38:24 GMT -5
Kurdape i am ok you post that you arenot agree with rules and your suspension but stop to lie when you say Admins didnt explained you why we boxed you.
You contacted me on C4F, i explained you that you got your 10th Non-report self reported (it means that you reported yourself 10 times on a Non-report) and i fallowed rules boxing you 7 days.
Then please stop to say admins didnt want to respond you, thank you.
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ezy
Settler
Posts: 29
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Post by ezy on Oct 27, 2007 10:11:22 GMT -5
good it happened to somebody else too
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Post by stetson on Oct 27, 2007 10:59:52 GMT -5
Sorry Moineau, but that explanation doesn't really cut it. . I don't think that Ape was lying at all when he said that no one has really explained why he was put in the box. Let me explain: That's like saying that "Look, you're in prison because you murdered someone." And no other explanation. I don't think any country would accept that! (While not as severe, that's what we have here - you're in the box for 10th NR). No one explained to him why he was NR, or whether the NR followed the guidelines [Let's face it, I've had several that have filed non-reports on me before a day has even passed]. I'm not saying that Ape wasn't wrong with this situation, but if he was boxed before being explained this part of the problem, its like saying you're in prison for murdering someone. In addition, Ape should have the opportunity to contradict his accuser. Seriously, I was not aware of this rule, but there's a serious problem with just boxing someone with their 10th self non-report and then just telling them "its their 10th self non-report", that's ridiculous and let me explain why. 1 - This assumes that the self non-report is an assumption of guilt. (Big Mistake!). There are many people who get a non-report, don't care about giving away a report to save some hassle, and just report. [Even though the non-report is totally unbased or filed incorrectly!]... I can guarantee that this is the way Ape is. (Given that, I can almost guarantee that there were quite a few non-reports that were just totally unbased and Ape just reported to save the hassle.) From personal experience, I've had quite a few non-report me before a day is up, and I just report them before the day is up, rather than fight the non-report that it wasn't filed properly. Again, am I being penalized for following the rules ( ??). If it happens 10 times I am! 2 - The non-report filer has all the power! In other words, I have never heard a non-report filer getting punished when he didn't follow the rules. In order to implement a 10 Self non-reporting rule, their would have to be countermeasures to punish the non-reporter when their wrong. In other words, when a non-reporter reports before a day is up, (which at this point, I haven't even gotten a clear answer from an Admin as to whether this is even against the rules - and it would have to be if we're going to have a 10 Self non-reporter rule conducted properly), he should have a punishment. 3 - The Self non-report rule only generates more work for the Admins (if it were implemented appropriately). In other words, for every non-report rather than just report, I would have to explain why the non-report is not accurate, and this would only generate more work for the Admins, rather than me just reporting and then there's no more hassle. Also, if implemented appropriately the Admins would really need to find at least a ruling on the 10th Self non-report as to whether the person was actually in the wrong before boxing him. I would suggest that there should be a finding on the previous 9 before that as well. 4 - I can understand the purpose behind a 10 Self non-reporting rule. To keep people from just waiting for a non-report and then just report. However, the way this rule is implemented today cast much too big of a net, (especially, in the situation of Ape). For example, when someone has over 1900 reports and only 10 of those are Self non-reports, then that person clearly is the person that this rule is designed to punish. Clearly that person isn't just someone who waits for the non-report before reporting. In order to specifically tailor this rule, it really should have a proportion of non-reporting attached to the rule. Personally, I am not a fan of the rule at all for the reasons I've already discussed. But I really think it has been unfairly implemented against Ape, and I believe that it is the Admins role not to just punish, but to punish fairly. As far as Ape lying - he didn't. Even his post before mine shows what he meant by no explanation - "Not getting a chance to face his accuser" (and more, just refer to his previous post)... I hope this helps curtail future problems, and sparks a reconsideration of this rule.
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Post by stetson on Oct 27, 2007 11:17:58 GMT -5
Sorry, the 24-hour rule wasn't hashed out correctly in the above thread, but I believe the gist of the rule is there. You can refer above in CS' thread for a clear cut explanation of the policy. (However, I do believe that non-reporters should have to wait 24 hours as a rule, not just a policy)
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Post by Bantams on Oct 27, 2007 12:08:45 GMT -5
Kurdape is one of the few Good Peeps left that play this game I think maybe you Guys could cut him some slack for whats probably his 1st offence I too couldnt figure out why he was boxed either he always reports pretty promptly as far as i was aware anyways
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Post by Canucksoldier on Oct 27, 2007 13:56:54 GMT -5
Ape may very well be a "stand-up" player, but that is not what this rule is about, in fact it is pretty cut and dry and we have been enforcing this for month's now on players, although it has never been high profile.
I made a clear non-report policy change several months ago after a ladder wide poll on non-report issues. It was decided then that not only should we punish players for not reporting, but also for having to be constantly reminded to report before actually reporting. We do check to ensure that the filing player actually waits the 24hrs before we record the report within this rule. So the fact that you are suspended for 10 days, means that likely several admins have edited your player record as you have accumulated "reminded NR's" since this policy was enacted.
In that light the comments in your Daily Report were fine and anyone should have realized what happened so long as you take 5 min of your life to read a stickied post that is also linked from a post in the main myleague anouncements.
Notwithstanding this, Moineau has the option of reducing it if he deems that the period of time the 10 reports were accumulated was excessive, but we also have to balance that will having to fairly enforce the rules for everyone.
CS
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Post by grimarch on Oct 27, 2007 17:14:38 GMT -5
I just need one thing explained. If someone files a NR before the 24 hour period does it count to the number of NR's you have?
Grimarch
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moineau
Warrior
Administrator
Posts: 330
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Post by moineau on Oct 27, 2007 17:28:08 GMT -5
No, in my case i always check the date of the match and the date of the report, if it's same day i dont count it
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Post by cryptococcus on Oct 27, 2007 20:11:09 GMT -5
ROFL, 10 self reported non reports is actually 40-50 imo. You also state you played over 1,000 games. Did you have to report them all or just half of them?
Btw, stetson you make an excellent defense lawyer, as you owe me a report right now and I have filed on you several times before.
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Post by cryptococcus on Oct 27, 2007 20:11:39 GMT -5
But, I agree, Free Ape! He generally reports right after game.
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Post by TheBadSeed on Oct 27, 2007 20:12:32 GMT -5
Out of curiosity, is there a time limit or number of games associated with the 10 reported non-reports gets ya a week in the box or something? I mean, 10 non-reports over a period of a month is a lot, 10 non-reports in 2 years is a different story. Same thing, 10 sel-reported non reports over a period of 200 games is a lot, 10 self reported non-reports over a course of 2000 games is pretty good. Also, why isnt more determination put into why these non-reports happened? With the ammount of [], _, .., etc that people put into their names, typos are bound to happen, and C4F, though its a great program and makes things very convenient, doesnt alert you when youve reported to a non-existent name. Ive taken to the habit of double checking my last games detail after I report to make sure I got everyone, and I'm always amazed at how many times I typo someones name putting it in there. Other times, Ive actually given free reports to people because I reported to someone whose name is too close.
Im a fan of the ladder, and of having the set of rules and regulations to keep the ladder functional and right. I also appreciate the guys who volunteer their time to help out making sure the system works. I just feel that some leniency and "deal making" might be more in order than maximum penalties for all offenses. This is a game, after all, and I get really bored sitting in the lobby and waiting for enough ladder people to join. It makes it even harder when the people you like to play with are in the lobby and cant join a game because of relatively minor offenses.
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