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Post by MookieNJ on Nov 20, 2006 18:14:29 GMT -5
Say what you want about the extra points, but:
1) If this happend to any other clan, they would be just as upset as we were. It's easy to say we deserved no compensation when it doesn't happen to you.
2) GOD played a great CCC, congrats to them. They could have sealed a CCC victory when they got one of the luckiest of RNG rolls available -- in the Random/Random they get Continents map in Ren Era with two of their players on the same Continent with 1 of our's. Should be an easy kill, or at the very least an absolute and complete choke making victory impossible, and guarantee them a CCC victory and us a CCC loss. I cannot thank Gogf enough for pulling an incredible victory out against overwhelming and nearly impossible odds.
3) The available TDs, Admins, and the opposing clan, MDR, all endorsed the solution when it was made. There are a lot of ifs, ands, or buts in every CCC where one little thing could have made a huge difference.
4) I'm done talking about this. I will enjoy this CCC victory as best I can, and that means avoiding the unfortunate negativity of parts of this thread as much as possible. Thanks to all the admins and TDs for their hard work, and thanks to all the clans for the great competition!
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Post by Gogf on Nov 20, 2006 19:14:34 GMT -5
It is beyond me why some people think that games should be decided entirely by the RNG. Randomly handing out games with no reasoning, especially in an event as highly charged as the CCC, is obviously not a good idea. We should either try to fairly determine the actual winner of a tie, or call the game as a tie. We can even call the game as a tie and fairly determine which team moves on to the next round. For example, we can call the "winner" of spaceship tie as the team with the higher score.
Now, we can apply the same type of thinking to wonders. Both teams can't get the wonder, and giving it to neither team wouldn't be very fun, so an actual tie is clearly not an option. A winner needs to be determined somehow. If one team has invested more shields than another, then clear they deserve to get it. There is no reason that the team which did a worse job of building the wonder should get it. Wonder ties should be decided by overflow, but, for whatever reason, Firaxis decided against this. That's a bad decision on their part, but do we really need to base all of our decisions on it?
It's not like the ladder doesn't have a built-in mechanism for dealing with ties. In fact, there is a tie in every CCC event, it's just usually between the third and fourth place teams. Why can't we move the tie to second second and third place?
In my opinion the best way to proceed in the event of space race a tie is to allow the team with the most score points to move on to the finals. Both the team with less points and the loser of the final round would receive second place points.
If, for whatever reason, we can't allow a tie for second place, there are a number of excellent ways for determining the winner of a tied game. RNG is not one of them.
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Post by notagoodname on Nov 20, 2006 19:57:08 GMT -5
It is beyond me why some people think that games should be decided entirely by the RNG. Randomly handing out games with no reasoning, especially in an event as highly charged as the CCC, is obviously not a good idea. Having admins subjectively give out points is even worse though. The great thing about randomness is that it should balance out in the long-term.
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Post by Gogf on Nov 20, 2006 20:16:11 GMT -5
It is beyond me why some people think that games should be decided entirely by the RNG. Randomly handing out games with no reasoning, especially in an event as highly charged as the CCC, is obviously not a good idea. Having admins subjectively give out points is even worse though. The great thing about randomness is that it should balance out in the long-term. I agree. There should be clear guidelines for who gets points and who moves on in the event of a tie.
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Post by eiffel on Nov 20, 2006 21:49:10 GMT -5
Hopefully, there will be no more space race victory event Where is the fun in making the ship in 30 turns... only thing that can be done is trying a early boat attack that almost always fails... not interesting at all, especially with this map. Future inland sea was more fun, even wheel or ring.
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Post by cryptococcus on Nov 21, 2006 4:07:39 GMT -5
Would've Could've Should've! 1. RaY 40 points 2. GOD 39 points 3(T). MDR 35 points 3(T). MUD 35 points Ray played good enough to win and the rest played good enough to lose. Congrats Ray except for noobitlauncher and Gogf, oh and Wiz
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Post by Ellestar on Nov 24, 2006 12:40:11 GMT -5
I think it should be decided by Score.
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Post by cryptococcus on Nov 24, 2006 18:04:18 GMT -5
I agree ES, whoever had highest score at space victory tie should have moved on. I think that should have been obvious IMO and I don't know who had the highest score btw.
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Post by MookieNJ on Nov 24, 2006 22:35:14 GMT -5
I agree ES, whoever had highest score at space victory tie should have moved on. I think that should have been obvious IMO and I don't know who had the highest score btw. We did .
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Post by eiffel on Nov 25, 2006 13:16:33 GMT -5
Just remove space victory that is no fun at all in a multiplayer contest since it's so fast that you can't try anything against it, no other way, ship would be launched before you could kill other players.
Space race should be allowed only in ironman since it takes hours to send ship, it is a real strategy. In future start, you try a fast kill, then you defend and build parts... what a challenge ;D
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Juni
Worker
Posts: 137
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Post by Juni on Nov 26, 2006 6:55:58 GMT -5
Agreed, let's juste remove it. Future event is much more fun when you have nothing else to do than kill. This also requires to change the map. Mirror sucks. It is the only map on which i've seen future games going to the end and being decided by score. This is not future IMO. Please put a good map for this event next CCC. Wheel or Inland Sea are such maps.
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Post by cryptococcus on Nov 26, 2006 19:45:04 GMT -5
If RaY had more points then they should have moved on to the final, why was that not mentioned or obvious?
I agree with Juni, mirror and the map suck for future.
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Post by venceslas on Nov 27, 2006 3:20:38 GMT -5
That was not obvious because the victory popup have said "MDR win".
chris.
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Post by tommynt on Nov 27, 2006 5:10:27 GMT -5
There was made a descision by td before sunday and it was impossible to do a "fair" for all desicion.
So i guess every1 just gotta accept it and the clans finishing close to RAY should have just played better on sunday or just played instead doing other bs as i did
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Post by MookieNJ on Nov 30, 2006 13:03:27 GMT -5
The developers of Civ4 have confirmed that the team with the lowest number will always win any tie to a victory condition. The lowest team number is set in staging, while not necessarily the host, it's simply team 1 -- in CCC it is customary for the host team to set to team 1 and the other team to set to team 2.
So as MDR hosted this game and set themselves to team 1, they would have won the Space Race tie 100% of the time, while RaY as team 2 would have lost this tie 100% of the time.
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Post by churchill1 on Nov 30, 2006 16:13:27 GMT -5
The developers of Civ4 have confirmed that the team with the lowest number will always win any tie to a victory condition. The lowest team number is set in staging, while not necessarily the host, it's simply team 1 -- in CCC it is customary for the host team to set to team 1 and the other team to set to team 2. So as MDR hosted this game and set themselves to team 1, they would have won the Space Race tie 100% of the time, while RaY as team 2 would have lost this tie 100% of the time. Sounds perfectly fair. ;D BTW it must be nice to be rubbing shoulders with those in the upper echelons of the civving world. EDIT- Oops, meant to hit reply and hit modify. Sorry! -Speaker
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Post by lporiginalg on Nov 30, 2006 23:34:56 GMT -5
If the developers really have confirmed that then I take back what I said about you guys not deserving to win. I still think the decision was hasty but all's well that ends well I guess. I think the admins should set a precedent for future ccc's and have the team with the highest score win the event.
Congrats RaY on a deserved ccc win.
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Post by Speaker on Dec 1, 2006 0:09:16 GMT -5
If the developers really have confirmed that then I take back what I said about you guys not deserving to win. I still think the decision was hasty but all's well that ends well I guess. I think the admins should set a precedent for future ccc's and have the team with the highest score win the event. Yes, the lead developer has confirmed, though not in a public place. But several ladder members can confirm his confirmation. They'll know where to look. Sounds perfectly fair. ;D BTW it must be nice to be rubbing shoulders with those in the upper echelons of the civving world. It took a lot of prodding to get an answer. My shoulders are rather sore at this point.
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Post by churchill1 on Dec 1, 2006 8:02:54 GMT -5
It took a lot of prodding to get an answer. My shoulders are rather sore at this point. Try prodding with your finger. It's a lot less tiring. Cynical Winston
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Post by zzZhenon on Dec 2, 2006 16:46:35 GMT -5
If the developers really have confirmed that then I take back what I said about you guys not deserving to win. I still think the decision was hasty but all's well that ends well I guess. I think the admins should set a precedent for future ccc's and have the team with the highest score win the event. Yes, the lead developer has confirmed, though not in a public place. But several ladder members can confirm his confirmation. They'll know where to look. Who's going to confirm the confirmation of the confirmation?!
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