As I was playing a good MP team game the other day it got me thinking about the best way to attack into a strong neighbors homeland after construction. So i figured I'd write this thread with what I'd consider a good strategy and get some input from everyone else...
The game I'm using and will refer too is my most recent (and really the only good) example in Online play as i spent the first week playing SP games to learn the game in general. It was a 2vs2 team game and i was the border with the enemy. I had aggressively choked my neighbor early, so well in fact that he could not defend against a barbarian attack, I then had to pull my choke units back to his capital to retake it and gave it back to the original owner (it was never my intention to take any cities just slow his growth to secure my own.) and as a peace treaty is mandatory with any trade this ended my choke.
We all went on a growth spree for a while with my side in the total points lead. Then came the time. I began building up military (slowly) and asked my teammate to send his troops up toward the border (as he was nice and secure behind me) But apparently as i was building up at my leisurely pace the enemy had the same plans and acted on them faster.
The border layout was me having 2 cities separated by a lake, which made 2 separated entry points with the north bordering the stronger German empire and the south bordering the previously choked Mongolians. I was India and my ally was Egypt. There was more wilds on the north border as this was actually only a German outpost point not his main lands. But also only an OP for me as well. They attacked me simultaneously. the Mongolian force was strongest with many keshics and foot units stacked together during the immediate entry with the keshics attempting to spread out ahead to pillage on subsequent turns. The Germans had slower units. Elephants and catapult + foot units and had further to move as it was an OP.
Which turned all immediate attention to the south force. Which was thoroughly trounced by Indian and Egyptian forces no more than 2 turns into the attack. I then sent 2 catapults and a few more units to the op in time to slaughter the German forces before they did any damage to more than 2 tiles. Which brings us to the dilemma. catapults make the game way to easy to defend your own homeland. So how do we combat this?
My plan for my eventual attack (which never happened as the enemy dropped the game after they failed perhaps they committed ALL there units with no reserves) would have been a more broad front approach (which works vs AI) with woodsman units taking the lead to scout and keep the enemy honest about not moving ALL units to the front... The way i see it keeping stacks to 3 units per for the first wave with solo scouts ahead would be the best way to use up his catapults or keep them defending in the cities while i pillage the important stuff (reinforcement road network, iron etc..) Then follow up with the main attack force which should be safe in bigger stacks just for ease of control... But heres a good question, the first wave stacks, should they be the Weaker/obsolete units or the more powerful to do as much damage with less risk of leveling up there active defenders? as I fully expect to loose these units id hate to be left with the main force being the substandard. (personally i believe if you can afford to upgrade every unit your doing something wrong!)
With the scouts and first wave moving in to sac harass and pillage to draw out there active defense keep the main force hidden. and if they do send there rear city defense up to the front use your woodsman/cavalry units to rush those cities so they have to draw back.
This however requires a HUGE military advantage to pull off without fail either in numbers or unit strength (technology). as spreading out to do the most damage would require a lot of numbers or time.
After there reinforcement ability is slowed and they used there catapults then its time to send in the main force ( to there dismay) and move on there cities.
But how would this actually fare against a human player with equal military power and deviousness.
lets get some feedback from you all.
/edit 3 minutes later freid posts his same topic epic and mine is dwarfed!~
Last Edit: Nov 11, 2005 17:51:10 GMT -5 by hauptman
I believe the worker first tactic is a shot in the foot personally. Whats the point of not growing for 20 turns to crank out a worker that cant do anything because you dont have the techs to make the upgrades.
I always crank out some "scout" units and a couple city defenders first and get to size 3 or 4. Then that worker gets built in 4 turns and you have the techs by then.
As a lot of people post about "starting without a resource", i wonder if its not too late to revamp the system with a patch?
My main issue with civ3 was once you had a resource, thats all you needed, ever. Thats hardly realistic. We have oil here in the US yet we still need to get it from other places as well. Whether it be by trade or by conquest nations devote much to attaining MORE of a resource.
Perhaps we should "borrow" the warcraft approach. Instead of C IV's approach of a lone oil square separated by 15+ squares from the next. It should come in clumps (like civ3) but provide a certain amount of resources per turn (call it tons whatever). Then each unit that uses that resource requires a certain amount to manufacture. Just like warcraft did with gold and wood. But also there should be a good sprinkling of lone squares throughout the map, so then no one would ever be completely out, but likely not have as much as they'd like. So now you have a REASON to go to war. Civ3 lacked any reason to go to war after the medieval era as if you expanded when knights etc where available then you have enough land that you usually had all the resources you needed. Most wars were self defense only in my single player games. But if i required a certain amount of oil to maintain a decent army and let my cities grow, then I'd have to consider conquest to get more.
Now say u see an iron ore square, u place your mine on it and it produces 10 tons per turn. Axe men require very little iron so maybe u could create a unit with 1 ton. But your citizens should also require an amount per turn for there own use... 1 ton per 2 city sizes? So a small civ could create enough units for self defense or even a small war, but they would seriously need to consider acquiring more, as fully armored units (Mace-men, Knights) might require 5 tons each. So that gives you a real reason to eye your iron rich neighbors cities, unless he is willing to trade a certain amount per turn for your benefit.
Japan went to war for steel, oil and rubber. After we stopped trading they went into a deficit. and expanded there empire solely for more resources. even though they had a small supply already.
The US strategic goal was to Bomb German oil production enough to slow or stop there production of oil and units which require it.
Both of these scenarios are not wholly possible under the Civ franchise version of resources and you either have it or you don't approach.
Pretorians too powerful as is, drop them to 7 atk and they would be fine.
Swordsman are 6.6 vs a city. Axemen are 7.5 vs melee. Jaguars are 5 vs everything.
The axeman is a counter, he should be more powerful vs the Pretorian. Just as a spearman is more powerful than all the mounted UUs (even the elephant as its cheaper to build). and Ironworking comes real fast when you drive on it. My only lost duel is against Rome and i had no metal resources. The iron was between us and i lost the early fight for it as he also had copper in his cap, wich rendered my chariots impotant.
The Jag is good that its a no resource unit, that has its uses early game. but yes it could use some sort of beefup, like keep the city attack bonus, or woodsman1 could make them a nice "musketeer" of the early game without the inability to defend against it, just chop down them forests to a) produce more archers/ barracks, and 2) deny the forest movement near your cities.
I had the same issue with an ivory in a single player. I had the elephant right there next to my capital. yet i couldnt build elephants. I even went down the list and checked trades and no wasnt trading to anyone.
I cant even fathom the amount of luck required to get a goodie hut with a 1 move unit, then move him in the correct direction to see and attack your capital within the 6 or 7 turns it would take you to build your first unit.
You must not be cranking out units first if you fall victim to this.
People who use computers actually buy premade crap computers? I thought dell got all there sales from buisness owners and computer newbies....
BUILD YOU OWN!
that way you choose what it gets. Its cheaper. It's very very easy to do (if you take the time to learn about what you are doing before you cut cards to make them fit!~).
The only "hard part" is the blasted windows installation.
Just wanted to add, right now i am using a dell at work. any time it hangs up the only power reset switch does not work, and they did not include a switch on the power supply. I'm actually required to UNPLUG the computer... now thats planning.
Last Edit: Nov 11, 2005 18:54:40 GMT -5 by hauptman
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