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Post by ironclad on Apr 7, 2007 17:34:52 GMT -5
-airbase and colonies should delete worker -should start with only a king, 1 settler, and a worker. -Should make a more random pangea map (if possible) -King should hide in cities, and not be seen without espionage. -No spies, should have to use gold to be able to see stuff like in civ3. Spies in civ3 were better by far -Modern armor and mech infantry should require rubber as well. -ICBM's should be way more expensive, like 4 times more. SDI should be 4 times more expensive than it currently is. -All spaceship parts should be double in cost(probably should be turned off) -Should not be able to see the whole map at turn 1. -Fighters should do less recon -Bombers should be able to kill units and bomb roads. -Bombing roads with planes and arty is very important imo -Settlers and workers should cost the same as they do in ancient Dont feel like thinking of anymore hehe
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Post by primax on Apr 8, 2007 8:03:25 GMT -5
Thx for your input IronClad, I appreciate it. The following are things you have suggested that were either included already or are now that you have suggested them -airbase and colonies should delete worker Currently only colony deletes worker. not sure why airbase should. was the worker removed in C3C? currently players start with a king and a settler. worker comes quick in around 4 turns anyway. will be done soon will be done shortly I have included the rubber resource and will be assigning it to units shortly. ( thx for this one, I forgot about rubber Currently both ICBM'S and SDI are 3 x more expensive Space race will be turned off and I will remove the spaceship parts. Suggested Settings will be: Domination & Regicide victory conditions, Future Ladder for ERA, custom balanced pangaea map, always war on, maybe 120-150 turns? I'm assuming this will be used mainly for teamer games and as such I think the rules would be something close to the following: Winning Team is decided when all 1 team are eliminated/concede or by adding up ALL team mates scores at end if time runs out
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Post by Tony on Apr 8, 2007 10:16:59 GMT -5
This sounds cool, i will test this for sure in about a weeks time, as for the map this will probally be better if this is not incoperated into the mod, so people can pick what they want.
Random sized islands, with teams randomly distributed would be cool, as would c3c type pangea. Getting stuck on an island with 2 enermies shouldnt be a huge problem, but this would require playing on large map, current maps are way to tiny for future games. (assuming its alot easier to rush).
Introducing an additional resource such as rubber is not going to be that effective aslong as MA's are killable with non-resource units.
Also ive said, this in many threads, but the problem with nukes and sdi isnt how much they cost, well maybe they should be slightly more expensive 1.5 times. But the problem is how easy making MFG is, tiles give crazy amount of food and and workshops are quick to build and give laods of hammers. On top of this you have rediculous amount of gold, which can use used to rush improvments. This is why you can get the spaceship in 20-something turns, nuke a turn, and a huge empire with loads of units way to fast.
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Post by ironclad on Apr 8, 2007 13:35:02 GMT -5
-Hmm its probabaly cause workers are so cheap in Future. In future workers are half as expensive compared to ancient. -Starting with all those city improvments means you can plant without any concern of gnp going down. -Railords and Roads should be bombable. This is a big one imo. -Stealth Bombers should be around 240 sheilds and Modern Armor 160 sheilds. Civ3 numbers .
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Post by Canucksoldier on Apr 8, 2007 14:05:10 GMT -5
Well if the problem in future is that everything is too cheap, perhaps we can do an overall cost increase of 1.25-1.5 or so, sort of the reverse of what we did for UQC. And on top of that make specific tweaks to some units/buildings like nukes/SDI/MA's that are unbalancing the game in this era.
And I agree with Tony, while a good pangea map for this would be great, we shouldn't limit our options.
CS
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Post by Tony on Apr 8, 2007 18:47:51 GMT -5
-Hmm its probabaly cause workers are so cheap in Future. In future workers are half as expensive compared to ancient. errrrm workers come in 1 per turn in c3c, and you didnt lose any pop when building them in future, with 5 food and i think 10 hammers. Also dont 4get indu civs could work crazy fast in facism. Mine a turn, railroad a turn, etc. Its been like 2 years since i played but i believe this information is right. So .... no, thats not why! It all the other things i mentioned, crazy food, crazy hammers, cheap stuff, super fast chopping, hurrying stuff, engineers, etc. All this being said, in C3C workers were not buildable off the bat, unless your a fool. And it did take some time to get out explror, change gov and get city to size 6 (also indu facism was not always feasible). Rushing really stunted your growth, but could easily result in a kill, this was the whole thrill. hey im a poet and i didnt even know it
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Post by primax on Apr 9, 2007 0:59:51 GMT -5
great work guys keep the ideas coming!
I have just implemented the code so the king is now invisible if in a city unless he is the only unit.
it is crazy fast and I think a combination of ideas in this thread will be required. I will probably change the speed like what was done with the UQC mod only opposite. I think the culture growth and gnp will need to be cut back... maybe with a simple divide by 4 or something.
I will make a map but as you guys suggest it will be optional and will most likely be split into mainly 2 continents.
I am still mainly working on getting new functions implemented. eg I still need to implement cruiser and artillery functions. Which is why I appreciate you guys thrashing out the gameplay issues.
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Post by primax on Apr 12, 2007 21:41:37 GMT -5
OK I have almost completed all the new functions for this mod. I will upload a screenie with some of the features showing. I have added most everything that has been suggested. New stuff added: *Bombers can destroy improvements + routes *Cruiser implemented *Rubber implemented The only thing left before a proper release are the game play issues. Deciding what costs what or removing buildings etc.
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Post by Tony on Apr 12, 2007 22:09:57 GMT -5
ok how would i insstall this mod?
And where can i downlaod it from, ill give it a good go tomorrow and report back
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Post by primax on Apr 12, 2007 23:05:23 GMT -5
OK here is the file simply unzip it to C:\Program Files\Firaxis Games\Sid Meier's Civilization 4\Warlords\Mods replacing the start bit with your game directory if you installed to a different drive or folder. and then load the mod like normal by going to advanced/load a mod and choosing Future Regicide MOD. Remember it still needs the game play sorted and artillery added but it is pretty much complete apart from this. to check it out single player I recommend going to Multi player and starting a HotSeat game and changing the other human players to AI. change the ERA to Future Ladder, untick all victory conditions and your away. The AI will not use alot of the new functions however but it will give you an idea of how everything works. The best method of course is to host a internet game with friends. forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/96917/Future_Regicide_MOD.zipNote: if you have the previous version installed please goto My Computer\C:\Program Files\Firaxis Games\Sid Meier's Civilization 4\Warlords\Mods rightclick on the "Future Regicide MOD" directoy and click delete.
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Post by Canucksoldier on Apr 13, 2007 0:18:03 GMT -5
Yes since this is the most complex and altered mod, testing of it is very important before we go making it part of the CCC or a COT.
CS
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Post by tamijo on Apr 13, 2007 8:04:42 GMT -5
Thank trying to make Warlords a little more fun. I for sure will down the MOD, as i did the UU and ultraQ.
Sadly i havent had the luck to play the UU yet, hope a host will come soon.
As i havent played CIV3 more than a few single player campaigns i dont understand all the suggestions here, but i guess a little teamplay with someone that knows the tricks, should do it.
We need to try new things thats for sure. And playing Future teamers is not very fun as it is atm.
How i hope they make MOD's a lot more easy in the expack. As it is prob. the only way to make CIV a 100% multi-p friendy game.
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Post by Avogadro on Apr 13, 2007 12:20:43 GMT -5
-Should not be able to see the whole map at turn 1.
YES
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Post by Tony on Apr 13, 2007 20:21:24 GMT -5
Very cool mod primax, has alot of potential, but there is quite a few things that are a little fishy.
1) Cruise missiles, i havnt really tested them out too much, but they are air units, which can be air lifted anywhere in the world. 2) Cruise missile has too much range 3 would probally be more then enough 3) Why is cruise missile a national wonder? I couldnt build it once i had 1 4) Cruise missle is 804 hammers? Thats more then ICBM should be cheap unit. 5) Cruise missle cant be stack moved with other units, i assume this is because it is flagged as fair unit. 6) Cruise missle is way to strong, i killed 8 MA's with 1 missile, maybe limit its colleteral amount to say 3 units and lower its str. One of these early would always kill king - cruise always kills exactly 8 units. 7) cruise missle should have 1 movement not 4 8) if you bomb a empty location with cruise missle it only take 1 move off and you move in that spot. 9) Something stange happen i made 9 aztec units and a king underneth it, it killed the whole stack with cruise, even tho it should only attack 8 units, including king and empire didnt die - this always happens when you cruise a city? Also i cant seem to work out the order in which it fights the units. 10) Rubber dont do anything!!!! 11) Ghandi has fast workers, which can not build colonies or airbases 12) airbases should consume worker 13) Airbases should take 1 turn (probally 2 imo, but not sure) 14) Conlines should consume worker 15) only way to work rubber even in borders is conly, but this cant be treated same as resources outside your borders, see 14 16) civs should definatly not start with explorer - not tempting to explore with king then. 17) maybe civs should start with a worker 18) Airbases are not visible on plains, forest hill and probally many more, just these are the 2 i built it on. I dont know why the art-work in your screen-shot if different. EDIT - i get 2 types of airbases now?? one like yours and one not, seems it mutated as i moved a plane onto it and off agian. 19) airbase should be able to tranfer 1 land unit per-turn, like a airport (although, would it be interesting to ommit this, means you have to build airports?? probally not) 20) Still some balance issue, but i think these can be addressed later. 21) Seems i cant airlift more then 1 unit to a aitbase, even with airport. EDIT :: i cant move no more planes on it either now. - i can move it onto one airbase, but not the other 2. and the art work for it keeps changing( seems it changes when only planes are stationed on it) 22) you can still build oracle, this might not be such a bad thing, make it a little more expsnsive and whoever gets it - gets some happiness and health in cites. 23) king is always visible 24)colonies can get culture with slider ot built.
Might be a good idea to make airbases like colonies where they are cites, but they start with airport. EDIT but then i guess you cant build them too close to your other cites, hmmmm
These are just the things i found when fiddling around with it, but i think it has potential, it really makes you have to think what to build and what civic to go into. I think its a really cool MOD personally. But must be played on a largish map!
Too sleepy to proof read or spell check :/
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Post by primax on Apr 14, 2007 4:10:51 GMT -5
thx for the feedback tony. I have fixed up most of the errors and they will be included in the next beta. Unfortunately I have been unable to play WL's so unable to find some of those errors.
in regards to the power of the cruise missile. I tried to have it similar to the cruise in C3C but it has been years since I last played.
The reason it kill 9 units is it counts the 1st unit as an attack and the 8 others as collateral.
The current problem with the King is CIV only updates visibility on movement. So if you fortify the king in a city where it is the only unit it will be set to visible. Even if you put another unit in the city the king will still be set to visible until you move it out and back in. I should be able to fix this but for the moment I will leave it untill final release.
To include artillery I will need to implement a lot of extra code to allow the range and this will be applied to the cruise as well thus eliminating most of the current problems with movement, airlifting etc.
I will also rewrite the airbase code to allow airlifting etc shortly. It is currently counted as a unit rather then an improvement which will change for next release.
Most of the changes involved in this mod are not trivial and it will require a lot of testing to get this mod just right. So thankyou for taking the time to try this out.
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Post by primax on Apr 17, 2007 5:09:52 GMT -5
I have almost finished a new build. I will put link to download in an hour or so. I have implemented a lot of what you have suggested Tony.
This build is feeling really solid and definetly gives you a feel for what this will be like.
Still many small things to fix as well as gameplay and balancing issues.
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moineau
Warrior
Administrator
Posts: 330
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Post by moineau on Apr 17, 2007 8:11:16 GMT -5
Wow, that's seems very interesting. I hope we'll have the link soon and it will be as funny as civ3.
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Post by primax on Apr 17, 2007 22:11:11 GMT -5
MOD: ----- Future Regicide 0.60b - by Primax Changes: --------- *All Civ's now start with worker *Player can choose religion now via tech *Cities can be built next to each other *Airbase/Colony cannot be selected - thus dont act like cities *Can only airlift to airbase or city with airport *When culture consumes a colony it changes to improvement with road *Religion does not spread to colonies/airbase *Religion is not founded in colonies/airbase *Artillery can airbomb (destroy improvements/routes) *Artillery can airstrike (attack units) *Cruise can airstrike *Cruise is landbased unit *More then 1 cruise missile can be built *Cruise strength lowered to 4 collatorall units *New speed added (future regicide) *Expansion is slowed and units cost slightly more *Airbase and colony removes worker *Airbases are now visible on all tiles *Indian fast workers removed (and all UU's) *No civ starts with explorer (still does in SP) *Rubber can be worked inside borders (with plantation) *Airbases can airlift 1 unit p/t (can accept infinite) Download: --------- users.bigpond.net.au/MEUI/Future%20Regicide%20MOD%200.60b.zipInstallation Instructions: ----------------------- *Please goto My Computer C:\Program Files\Firaxis Games\Sid Meier's Civilization 4\Warlords\Mods directory and right click on and delete any previous versions of Future Regicide before installing. *Please unzip this file to C:\Program Files\Firaxis Games\Sid Meier's Civilization 4\Warlords\Mods. *Remember to change C:\Program Files.. to your install directory or drive if you installed to a different location. Usage: ------ *Simply goto Advanced/Load a Mod from main menu to load MOD. *This MOD is designed as a MP MOD and as such does not work well in SP mode. *To Start a SP game please goto Multi Player and start a hotseat game. Change the players to AI, the ERA to Future Ladder and the speed to Future Regicide. **Best played on larger continent maps. ***As usual please post any errors or improvements in this thread.
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Post by knupp on Jun 5, 2007 17:46:54 GMT -5
Maybe I misunderstand. You can build 10 cities in 10 adjacent tiles? I was no Civ3 Future expert, but I did play a little. It was a lot more build up and took a lot longer to get rolling than Civ4. A problem you might face Primax, is that most of the Future Civ4 players play it because it is fast, and they like that. It's a nice change from ancient every so often. That's why I wouldn't increase the costs of anything.
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Post by tommynt on Jun 6, 2007 2:47:39 GMT -5
Knupp exactly what u say "people play civ4 fut cause it s fast", was the thrill of civ3 future - u start slowly nearly as slow as in ancient but with all techs and governments available u were able (if u were skilled) to skyrocket superfast. As said allready - there were people who could get from 1 settler to a 25 city empire with nukes in like 45 turns There were other players who did rush u in like turn 12 with 2 missles and 2 TOWs and some Galleon.
So just cause u think it s slow it dont have to be really slow. The huge diversitys and posiblilities required so much more skill then everything in civ4 - civ4 is just really straight forward with every1 playing very much like the same every game. - Just take these 100s of Cav stalements games in ren Inland sea as an example with culture bombs on both sides ...
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