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Post by whiplash on Jul 22, 2007 0:02:47 GMT -5
I guess that sneaky Brit did too. Oh well, story of my life.
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Post by whiplash on Jul 22, 2007 0:16:56 GMT -5
Tamijo asked this question a ways back in this thread ... didn't realize it was there. So there is no confusion - Double moves are not permitted. That said, to be fair to all including the aggressor lets decide on this: When involved in a battle and you are taking your turn and you happen to be the last player to play so the turn flips over, please wait until your opponent has an opportunity to respond by waiting at least 9 hrs before taking your next turn. I think this gives the player an opportunity to play his turn and you an opportunity perhaps to move advantageously. I think double moves in real time game play although annoying as hell are just a matter of course and somewhat representative of troops on the field of battle having a better commander or equipement to move and encircle their opponents. However in Pitboss because of game mechanics it would be highly unfair for a player to just happen to be the last player and beat or kill an opponent this way. We would see everyone in pitched battles running the clock in the hope of getting the double move. That would really slow the game down. If anyone disagrees with the 9 hr rule please let me know but I think thats fair. A player need not be the last to play the turn to pull off a double move. He just needs to play after his victim on turn X and before him on turn X+1.
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Post by whiplash on Jul 22, 2007 0:19:01 GMT -5
We have a little bit of an issue .... A couple of turns back IanDC and myself discovered that we are on the same continent. It's a large continent but we're there sharing the same bed so to speak. I have a neighbor on my landmass as well.
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Post by WarningU2 on Jul 22, 2007 0:41:17 GMT -5
Yes of course ... Ok modify the game play rule to allow the opponent to play within 9 hrs of the aggressor. After that the aggressor can do what he/she likes.
Does this make at all sense or am I speaking from my ahole? I just don't want there to be any misunderstanding because it can ruin a game with bickering when this happens
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Post by IanDC on Jul 22, 2007 2:02:43 GMT -5
I've corrected Tamjo and IanDc having the wrong CIVs selected in CIVSTATS. You will each have to select your appropriate leader and register again in civstats for this game. The password of course is blueballs. So IanDc select Mansa Mula for Mali and Tamijo select Elizabeth for England. I don't think that works, the civs still have the wrong one against the name. I can select IanDC but it still says I'm England or I can select the Mali civ but then I actually have Tamijo's England.
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Post by MMV on Jul 22, 2007 6:59:34 GMT -5
I've corrected Tamjo and IanDc having the wrong CIVs selected in CIVSTATS. You will each have to select your appropriate leader and register again in civstats for this game. The password of course is blueballs. So IanDc select Mansa Mula for Mali and Tamijo select Elizabeth for England. I also see that Cyrus is not registered ... is that MMV now of Cognito? MMV please register in CIVSTATS. When diplomacy starts CIVSTATS is a handy communication method. I believe the emails still work My civ - registered to me ([KC]MMV has been "Cognito" since registering before the first turn and shows that on my civstats, again, since turn one. The double move: Yes, I've seen a pattern of someone using the timer to their advantage to make "double turn" (equivilant to double-move in my oppinion) - although I have not seen it recently. The counter to this - of course - would be to log in, make civ moves, and NOT hit "end turn" before leaving the game to let the timer run out I had intended to use this not "ending turn" as an counter-move to anyone that continues with the apparent pattern timer manipulation for "double turn/double move" Or, we could just all play with our best sportsmenship
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Post by whiplash on Jul 22, 2007 7:35:33 GMT -5
Yes of course ... Ok modify the game play rule to allow the opponent to play within 9 hrs of the aggressor. After that the aggressor can do what he/she likes. Does this make at all sense or am I speaking from my ahole? I just don't want there to be any misunderstanding because it can ruin a game with bickering when this happens I think this makes a lot of sense. You could also establish a rule requiring the aggressor to provide e-mail notice to the defender as to when the 9 hours is up; but maybe that is a bit too anal.
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Post by WarningU2 on Jul 22, 2007 8:37:27 GMT -5
Thanks for comments guys. In the spirit of sportsmanship lets not permit doublemoves within a 9hr window. In the event one occurs from this point forward please notify me. The game will be stopped, investigated and if necessary restarted from the previous save. This would only occur when a double move occurs giving an advantage to the aggressor, likely only in a war situation.
Lets try an abide by a post in this thread so it can be tracked. If you get into a situation where a double move is possible and will be giving you an advantage place a post here putting them on notice. Lets try it out anyway ... if it doesn't work or is too much bother we'll assume we can all keep track. If you have a situation like this I would take a few screen shots to help any investigation.
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Post by WarningU2 on Jul 22, 2007 8:40:08 GMT -5
Re CIVSTATS mix up ... ok I don't know how to fix this. I thought when you set it up you select the leader and the person that will be playing it. If its selecting Mali's leader and bringing up Elizabeth's picture with the clause English Empire ... I can't fix it at this point. It must be a CIVSTATS bug. The only thing I could do is delete the current game in CIVSTATS and create from scratch ... if you folks want me to do that please let me know.
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Post by mightydwaarf on Jul 23, 2007 12:12:02 GMT -5
I have also just found a neighbour on my land, which confused me a little. It would seem now that at least 6 out of eight civs have land neighbours. I would certainly be against a restart and think that we should just proceed as normal. As regards double moves I agree that in wartime there should be the ruling as regards double moves, however is this rule going to be applied during peace time??
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Post by MMV on Jul 23, 2007 13:23:37 GMT -5
how about a .... "One log-in/log-out per turn" rule?
from reading other pit-boss threads, it would seem that this rule would prevent a few of the other "issues" that have ocurred in previous pit-boss games
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Post by WarningU2 on Jul 23, 2007 19:01:50 GMT -5
Not sure why it matters why there is one login/logout per turn. Can you explain? I think the double move should only be applicable during war time in 90% of the cases otherwise it becomes too tedious to manage. But if others feel it should always be the case we're create the bureau of the doublemove dept to monitor the game There will not be a restart. Appears the premise of one continent per civ and the map option for that is flawed. Oh well.
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Post by MMV on Jul 23, 2007 20:12:19 GMT -5
A mandatory and maximum of one log-in/log out per session would offer the following:
when you see on civstats that someone has taken their turn, it would prevent a player who has already ended his turn from logging back in and adjusting their civ accordingly with counter-moves prior to their actual next turn
we witnessed things like this, and the ensuing arguments in the thread on whiplash's game
i.e. - 7/28/07 12:57 pm WarningU2 logged in 7/28/07 12:57 pm WarningU2 finished turn (*enter enemy territory pre-attack phase with horse-units*) 7/28/07 12:59 pm WarningU2 logged out 7/28/07 1:13 pm Tamijo logged in (*moves to defend pending horse-unit attack*) 7/28/07 1:14 pm Tamijo finished turn 7/28/07 1:15 pm Tamijo logged out 7/28/07 12:57 pm WarningU2 logged in (*same turn* adjusts unit movement from Tamijo's defensive move*) 7/28/07 12:59 pm WarningU2 logged out 7/28/07 12:59 pm A new turn has begun. It is now 1800 BC
one log-in/out would also help control anyone who was using the timer to manipulate NOT the double move - but the double turn i.e. - 7/28/07 10:56 pm MMV logged in 7/28/07 10:57 pm MMV finished turn 7/28/07 10:57 pm A new turn has begun. It is now 1800 BC 7/28/07 10:58 pm MMV finished turn 7/28/07 10:58 pm MMV logged out (*completing DOUBLE turn in one log in) *NOTE - ONE LOG IN AND TWO TURNS*
it would also prevent the "counter" to this possible timer manipulation i.e.- 7/28/07 10:56 am MMV logged in (*moves, doesn't end turn*) 7/28/07 12:57 pm WarningU2 logged in 7/28/07 12:57 pm WarningU2 finished turn 7/28/07 12:59 pm WarningU2 logged out 7/28/07 1:13 pm Tamijo logged in 7/28/07 1:14 pm Tamijo finished turn 7/28/07 1:15 pm Tamijo logged out 7/28/07 1:20 pm A new turn has begun. It is now 1800 BC 7/28/07 1:22 pm MMV finished turn 7/28/07 10:23 pm MMV logged out (*completing DOUBLE turn in one log in*)
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Post by WarningU2 on Jul 23, 2007 20:30:59 GMT -5
Wow ... I guess I'm not as devious as others. It would never of occured to do something like this. Explains why I never do as well.
Part of me says oh we must stop this, but another part of me says so what? Both sides have the ability to take their turn "tactically" ie. hold something in reserve and move to counter the opponents moves. If a player was able to undo a move well thats a different story but you can't once committed.
In CIV and deciding on rules that involve game mechanics and the intent of the game designers I often like to think of what would does it simulate in real life.
In actual battles observers would often report HQ and reserves would move accordingly. I don't think it would be practical myself to administer the game this way but hey ... lets put it to the vote and see what you all say. All in favour of 1 login per turn/move rule ... please say yeh or nay.
As for the double move in real life, that is using game mechanics unfairly and in my mind should be prohibited ... and is in this game with the 9hr rule with notice as discussed previously.
BTW ... I find these discussions fascinating. When I started the league it was amazing to me the debates and discussions on topics like this.
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Post by MMV on Jul 23, 2007 22:24:46 GMT -5
a double turn (back to back) can facilitate a double double-move
I vote one log in/log out per turn
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Post by Magzi on Jul 24, 2007 2:43:01 GMT -5
This is getting over complicated.
I see it that if I'm knowingly going to be at an advantage by deliberately double moving, then I won't do it. If however my warrior is just wandering through more trees...then so what?
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Post by IanDC on Jul 24, 2007 3:04:56 GMT -5
I don't like the idea of only one log on, I might want to log on before a turn end to see what happened, particularly if I moved early in the turn.
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Post by tamijo on Jul 24, 2007 4:49:27 GMT -5
unit doublemoves. In war good sportsmanship would be to move military units about same time every day !. But an 9 or even 12 hour rule is fine. Remember if y dobbelt move your opponent get a DM after ! Is not that y get extra moves in a mobilization situation over a longer period. I cant se why y should not be allowed to dobbelt move a farm improvement, in the end everyone gets the same amount off turns anyway. Only slow the game down, if y cant take dobbelt turns in peacetime. Best thing is we can allways reload, if something happen's that would make anyone feel cheated upon. If y cant login more than once, for how long would y be allowed to stay online ? 24/7 ? (that is 1 login a turn lol) I think is fun to go check my game a few times a day. When i got the time. I'we done that even in this early stages, where no war is starting. Maby just to check the demografic or take another look at the map. The tactical moves from more than 1 login, is oki with me, that is a part off the Pitbox gamestyle, y got a slow timer, so the more y online the better, but it will not make an archer kill a elefant.
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Post by tamijo on Jul 24, 2007 5:17:23 GMT -5
Alternatively though ... perhaps people are thinking man I wish I'd started this with BTS. Assuming of course everyone playing here is getting BTS in the near future. Have to admit, that would be enough reason for me to vote Start over, and i would also suggest no TT allowed, i think its more fair that y will have to make your own techs, everything else allowed.
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Post by whiplash on Jul 24, 2007 6:32:20 GMT -5
I don't think there needs to be any move/login restrictions during peacetime.
I would not like to see this scrapped for the sake of BtS. Both U2 and I have a warlords pitboss running. Mine has been running since October. There surely is a way to run more than one pitboss but I don't know how that is done. Over at Strategamers Elucidus is running four.
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