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Post by Canucksoldier on Jan 22, 2008 20:25:34 GMT -5
Well I have a pretty good knowledge of how the GS NAT system works and I think that we could help some of those starting issues with DirectIP and perhaps Hamachi, the game code for MP in BTS has not changed in two patches...so it is not the code that is causing the recent problems. Therefore I can only assume that it is a GS issue perhaps there launch of Comrade is stressing out there network more...
CS
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Post by tamijo on Jan 23, 2008 10:00:55 GMT -5
CS asked 15 post down the line, why not make it a rule that you make teams like :
skill 1-4-5-8 V skill 2-3-6-7
I know someone will say, skill is not fair, but it must be more fair than random shuffle, and a lot more fun too, cos in most ERAS pick is important to get a fun and fair game.
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Post by Levi on Jan 23, 2008 13:01:15 GMT -5
Here's a wacky thought for you. What if we created a "permanent" Hamachi network. By "permanent" I mean someone with a fairly stable life/computer creates a Hamachi VPN which they leave on 24/7. In theory, we could assign each player to a unique IP under which they, and only they, are allowed to play with.
I realize this creates a bit of overhead, and perhaps we do not need to assign IPs to people, but I am just throwing an idea out there. I have never tried to create a stable VPN, but I don't see any reason why it couldn't stay up indefinately. It would make it a little more difficult for noobs to join the ladder in that they would have to deal with Hamachi at the same time. If, however, it eliminates the majority of connectivity issues, I believe it would be worth the learning curve. Besides, since I am the lobby helper, most of the new ladder players will be asking me how to do Hamachi.
Of course, none of this stable Hamachi network is necessary. The ladder host could make his own VPN without to much difficulty, and the players could join his. It just might be a little easier on the host to simply say the game is ladder, and all the ladder players won't have to join the hosts VPN, instead they can join the VPN used by the entire ladder.
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Post by whiplash on Jan 23, 2008 13:24:08 GMT -5
Do you mean to tell us that nobody has experimented yet with Himachi for a real-time game? I'm willing to bet that it will solve most of your issues.
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marr
Worker
Posts: 169
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Post by marr on Jan 23, 2008 14:00:57 GMT -5
Will doing this allow us to host games larger then 10 players? 14 maybe or even, dare I dream... 18?! If we can get bigger games, I am all for this.
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Post by whiplash on Jan 23, 2008 14:55:41 GMT -5
Maybe you should try a PitBoss game with Hamachi in direct IP mode with a very short timer.
Pitboss games are usually run for epics that last for months. A few of these that I'm in we have had real-time sessions at appointed times. This runs just like a ladder MP game without the connection hassles.
btw, players can keep their firewalls up with Hamachi.
Beware though, this is really a scheme being run by the Japanese auto industry. While you play subliminal messages are implanted in your brain. It's so fast you don't notice it. It says "next time I'll buy a Toyota".
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Post by thegreatsatan on Jan 23, 2008 15:04:27 GMT -5
Maybe you should try a PitBoss game with Hamachi in direct IP mode with a very short timer. Pitboss games are usually run for epics that last for months. A few of these that I'm in we have had real-time sessions at appointed times. This runs just like a ladder MP game without the connection hassles. btw, players can keep their firewalls up with Hamachi. Beware though, this is really a scheme being run by the Japanese auto industry. While you play subliminal messages are implanted in your brain. It's so fast you don't notice it. It says "next time I'll buy a Toyota". we can only dream of online play that is as reliable as a toyota. The massive scheam, to build better cars then everyone to take over the market, is working.
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Post by cryptococcus on Jan 23, 2008 15:59:27 GMT -5
CS asked 15 post down the line, why not make it a rule that you make teams like : skill 1-4-5-8 V skill 2-3-6-7 I know someone will say, skill is not fair, but it must be more fair than random shuffle, and a lot more fun too, cos in most ERAS pick is important to get a fun and fair game. If its done like this every time eventually it would become more fair. Just like caps would become more fair, if completely horrible people didn't get lucky against teams with high ranks in them. The people who won't cap that are ranked high have high ranks from lucky nwb shuffle teamers. It would change if people started doing things like your describing.
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Post by chuckynorris on Jan 23, 2008 19:54:28 GMT -5
reasons that wont work. 1. IF a top player takes 2 months off/2weeks off etc his rank will fall i assume. 2. some players are better at different eras.
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Post by Cobra on Jan 23, 2008 20:24:46 GMT -5
Actually hamachi works really well. I live in MS and all my friends live in Ohio. We play all our games via Hamachi and we have minimal lag if any and the connection has never failed. Hamachi is the way to go but good luck gettin everyone together for something like that.
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Post by Canucksoldier on Jan 23, 2008 20:38:00 GMT -5
About a year ago I ran a poll to suggest that we officially use Hamachi as a league "recommendation", it was voted down soundly at the time. At the time I guess that people just couldn't be bothered to do the extra work to secure a good connection. I'll be willing to revist this issue after we launch the new league for sure.
Levi that sounds like idea worth looking into, I haven't played with Hamachi lately but I'll do some investigating.
CS
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Post by whiplash on Jan 23, 2008 22:26:21 GMT -5
There is really very little "extra work".
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Post by Canucksoldier on Jan 24, 2008 0:16:24 GMT -5
There is really very little "extra work". I would agree, but I guess people have ADD here, mods are too hard to organize let alone DirectIPing via Hamachi But perhaps we are maturing as a community enough to be patient enough to use things like this to have the pay off of a good trouble free game. CS
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Post by Cobra on Jan 24, 2008 1:06:53 GMT -5
Here's a wacky thought for you. What if we created a "permanent" Hamachi network. By "permanent" I mean someone with a fairly stable life/computer creates a Hamachi VPN which they leave on 24/7. Hopefully you'd be able to have multiple admins for this network so just in case the power goes out in one the others could put it up.
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Post by gitbliss on Jan 24, 2008 3:29:30 GMT -5
I am currently hosting a pitboss game via Hamatchi and have had a few live sessions with it as well.
It is less troublesome than GS but it is a step back, it might give the players a less troubled session, but at the same time it is certain that very few if no new people will join the community.
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Post by eiffel on Jan 24, 2008 3:34:27 GMT -5
I agree, it's not that easy to use. Forcing it for the CCC may be possible but I think making it mandatory for each ladder game would be a mistake, preventing new players from joining the community. And I'm quite sure that most of us are lazy ;D
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Post by TheClash on Jan 24, 2008 4:25:53 GMT -5
I agree, it's not that easy to use. Forcing it for the CCC may be possible but I think making it mandatory for each ladder game would be a mistake, preventing new players from joining the community. And I'm quite sure that most of us are lazy ;D you are so right Eiffel
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Post by Magzi on Jan 24, 2008 6:11:45 GMT -5
I do think it's a poor show of the makers of the game that we have to even consider using something like Himachi to get a modern game played multiplayer.
I'm afraid it doesn't instil me with confidence and would no doubt put many otherwise new members off too.
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Post by Bantams on Jan 24, 2008 9:06:52 GMT -5
does it work with vista i think like many if we are forced to use hamachi to play a game we just wont bother playing direct ip is ok yes maybe if GS is down!
but basically i agree 100% with mags post
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Post by MMV on Jan 24, 2008 9:10:46 GMT -5
It doesn't matter which network you use, GS, Hamachi, Direct IP - the majority of the game/connection issues continue to lay with individuals who are limited by their PC, their settings, and their overall desire to play that specific game of the moment
Hamachi isn't going to help people with the worst connections; nor will it help game-play for those who continue to use the high-density/graphics settings, or "those other issues" and it's negative effects on the other players in that game
"Those other issues" being.... - players who upon game launch decide they didn't like the team they were on so they "exit" out of the game during set-up (fouling the game for everyone) forcing a lobby restart from scratch
- players, upon a quick look at the land/position, and don't like what they see so the "X" out of the game forcing restart from scratch
- and of course after a mysterious drop.... "I can't reconnect" - which is RARELY seen by a player who is strong and/or in a "win" position
It's the human factor - all the way back though our multiplayer history from CivPTW through CivBtS multiplayer. Those who don't want to play "what they get" (team, land, civ, etc) can and DO simply - create an issue either through their actions (leaving game at key points) or their inactions - not trying to reconnect and claiming"I can't"
No matter which "network" is used, it's the human-factor that remains the same, consequently, the primary "issues" will remain the same.
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