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Post by AngelofLove on Jan 19, 2008 6:49:53 GMT -5
paper your not being very nice, your saying they bitch hon, what are you doing right now it looks like your bitchiing also pls no more paper
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Post by Matlowe on Jan 19, 2008 7:40:39 GMT -5
paper your not being very nice, your saying they bitch hon, what are you doing right now it looks like your bitchiing also pls no more paper I agree Papercut was way out of order there. just dont accept him into the next tournament lovebug, that should fix him.
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Post by geforced on Jan 19, 2008 12:15:57 GMT -5
hmm i feel i must make a comment here,
seems like a ray vs here, ive never particually got along with them but i will stand in their corner on this one.
first things first, eiffel you got booted because your a poor player now, you are a great guy and have done alot for the community with c4f, but at the end of the day, it is a community for a game, and the better players get in the games.
Getting kicked from or not being allowed in ladder games a bad thing? i believe not, i know what your thinking, 'of course gef, because you never get kicked from games', i remember when i began playing and wouldnt get into games, but this behavior motivated me to improve.
CanuckSoldier, you are undoubtably one of the niceist members of the community, but people lack respect for you because you rarely play, and your just plain terrible at the game this community is built around, you ask does it effect your judgement? possibly, lack of knowledge is reflected on the ccc but its not just you, the majority of the admin team either dont play, or dont understand the basics, dont get me wrong im not trying to flat out bash the admin team, but its the facts.
I've been apart of a few multiplayer gaming communities in the past, alot bigger than this one, and they were all run by the very best players of the game, because they are the true leaders of the community, this isnt real life, you only get respect from players from playing well.
So what are you saying gef? make mrgametheory, missladyluck and mookie the new head admins? no, but we need a middle ground.
right now poor players are running a ladder with an even poorer system. And we all want diffrent things.
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Post by TheClash on Jan 19, 2008 13:23:18 GMT -5
well geforced, if its a community game nobody, especially when invited before and with a good behaviour, should be booted if he is part of the community my definition of community = Ladder member
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Post by chuckynorris on Jan 19, 2008 14:36:15 GMT -5
I remember about a year ago when I first started playing ladder, I got invited to a game full of elite players. GEF invitited me, and then booted me once Missladyluck signed on as they needed an extra spot. he did say "sorry m8, need an extra spot for my clanmate." That made me hate gef, but also motivated me to get better (although I no longer hate gef at all . I think for those of us that have wasted so much time learning to play civ, we dont want to waste further time in a game where its 4v5 because 1 player significantly unbalances the game. Eiffel is a very nice guy, but hadn't played much for about a year before this happend. There are 2 sides to this story 1. host should have been more careful inviting players (giving away pw before all good lpayers are in if it is an elite game. If eiffel remembered pw from before and wasnt invited, then host is not at fault). 2.Eiffel should have accepted he was not of the skill level of the other players, and focused on improving instead of writing in forums (although I understand his anger).
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Post by thegreatsatan on Jan 19, 2008 14:47:59 GMT -5
hmm i feel i must make a comment here, seems like a ray vs here, ive never particually got along with them but i will stand in their corner on this one. first things first, eiffel you got booted because your a poor player now, you are a great guy and have done alot for the community with c4f, but at the end of the day, it is a community for a game, and the better players get in the games. Getting kicked from or not being allowed in ladder games a bad thing? i believe not, i know what your thinking, 'of course gef, because you never get kicked from games', i remember when i began playing and wouldnt get into games, but this behavior motivated me to improve. CanuckSoldier, you are undoubtably one of the niceist members of the community, but people lack respect for you because you rarely play, and your just plain terrible at the game this community is built around, you ask does it effect your judgement? possibly, lack of knowledge is reflected on the ccc but its not just you, the majority of the admin team either dont play, or dont understand the basics, dont get me wrong im not trying to flat out bash the admin team, but its the facts. I've been apart of a few multiplayer gaming communities in the past, alot bigger than this one, and they were all run by the very best players of the game, because they are the true leaders of the community, this isnt real life, you only get respect from players from playing well. So what are you saying gef? make mrgametheory, missladyluck and mookie the new head admins? no, but we need a middle ground. right now poor players are running a ladder with an even poorer system. And we all want diffrent things. nobody is saying you can't have your own privite "ray' games. Just don't call it a ladder game. The ladder is a league/community. I understand that you got to PW your games because you do have to screen people. I agree that if you don't know a player, and that player only has a few games played, it maybe wise to tell him he needs more games played before stepping into teamers. However, if you gave someone a PW, they sit and wait, then you boot them to make room for someone else, that ain't cool at all. Its mean. This community lacks honorable players. Which is why it has been in declined. We need guys like Churchill and Smucky back, to bring back the civility and charm that used to be commen place here. The ladder has become a giant "sword fight" if you know what I'm sayin. Everyone believes that they are gods gift to civ and everyone else sucks. What ever happened to the art. Sometimes, its cool to have a noob on your team. It makes you adjust. I've seen teams of noobs kill over confident teams of vets. Every game is different. The best civ players can adjust to having a noob, or crap land, or even being 2v1. The civ gods throw different senario's at there civvers to better them. What fun would civ be if everyone just did the same old stratigy every game. If you only play the same little group of people, your stats will be statisticaly different from people that play openly. So sitting there playing the same people gives your stats an advantage. Kinda like cheating. If you want to run up a big streak for ex, and the little group you play don't care if you report right away, you can get way up there. A normal day to day player, playing random teamers, is hard pressed to win 10 strait games. So next time you see guys with big streaks and awsome records, don't asume they earned that honoralby. Honor left this ladder a long time ago.
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Post by eiffel on Jan 19, 2008 16:03:28 GMT -5
My skills are not the matter here. I've never been a top player and never pretended to. I didn't hack the password, neither did the others that have been booted in this game. I'm just telling inviting then booting is wrong... and inviting then booting without a word is even worse. That's all...
Talking about skills, some of the best "pretending" players are the best because they use others to acheive their strategy. And once the poor one that had to give their resources or units die... they are seen as noobs. Some of those self-proclamed Elite players will die like noobs when early-rushed. And some (rare) others really can recover from desperate situations by themselves : pandoras, mookie, chucky are some of these players. They get my respect for their skills. Some of these top players are also nice players, but it looks like most of them can really act like asses from time to time ;D
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Post by Canucksoldier on Jan 19, 2008 16:15:25 GMT -5
Well Gef, I respect your opinion but I have to disagree. I don't have experience out side of the Civ franchise, but in my experience, game skill and the ability to run a league of players that are people, has nothing to do with skill at the game. Yes it's been over a year since I've had a chance to be above average in any game here, such is life. But as Eyes likes to point out two high school/college students ran a league for Civ2 as a project and it was just fine. So obviously it's not critical to be a top player, and as I've stated before this is about managing people. As to things like the CCC, why do you think I invited and recruited for the CCCAC? Supposedly clans should be sending there best members and players to put forth there opinions....so these people should be among the best players in the ladder, or atleast represent those players. The fact that they often can't agree all the time is just a measure of the different styles of play at the top of the leagues skilled players, but then it is our job to pick a middle ground that makes the most people happy. Doesn't sound too hard for Admins that are good leaders and managers if not the best players. Respect is a very subjective thing to talk about, obviously there are some players here that only respect people that can beat them in a computer game. That is fine, but somewhat flawed. People deserve respect for just being human beings and it is a well known "conditioning" method for governments to "dehumanize" the enemy so there soldiers can go out and feel good about killing them knowing that they aren't really humans but "gooks, krauts, japs...etc". To me this is what is being used by some players here, like Eyes, MGT, Met and others, "n00b's" aren't real people, and further either are players that are not "elite", ergo it is ok to treat them like crap because they are not really human after all This may be a slight exaggeration, but it is not far off. As someone else here pointed out we did have in the past players that treated every player with respect and kindness, and told them how to get better. And the problem with treating new or average players like crap is that they are the life blood of the league, and if you piss them off, shortly you will be playing with you and your small group of elite friends because the league will cease to exist as an effective organization. In Civ3 the Ladder made up 90% of all players in the lobby, in Civ4 we likely only account for about 40%....so ask yourself why that is.... CS
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Post by Bantams on Jan 19, 2008 18:38:16 GMT -5
wtf this is still here omfg its so sad when nobbs like .. and .. take a online game so serious ffs its only a fooking game play it enjoy playing it or fook off and play wic ffs nubs
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Post by Matlowe on Jan 19, 2008 18:40:40 GMT -5
well geforced, i think you should start playing ray games. Its never always about skillz wtf are you on about. if an elitist not a very nice person was in charge of this ladder, good bye to the so called noobs and wed have a 20 ladder league rotating the top 20 from tbg start separated ancient games. how fun that sound.
and chucky since when you have to be f**kyn ace of spades to not get booted from a game? he got invited and then booted because someone else better turned up. from that game i can name 1 worse player and two about same skills. yet they didnt get the boot? dont go blaming it on skillz chucky he got the boot because he didnt have a clanmate in the game, and he was obvious target left. i been here long enough know what happens you all get excited want to x in so bad just to play a shuffle ancient teamer lol. couldnt wait another 5mins for another player? now who are the real noobs at civ?
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Post by Magzi on Jan 19, 2008 18:45:45 GMT -5
Well if I play a lobby game...these days....it's not ladder and I don't use my name either but, I found a game where most people are nice It doesn't matter any more............not many I know anyway!
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marr
Worker
Posts: 169
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Post by marr on Jan 19, 2008 19:15:02 GMT -5
F*ck that Chucky and Gef, I am a better player then both of you but you don't hear me running around playing Elite. Lets keep this for what it is, there are a few of you who have played civ for awhile and like to play games together. Much the same as a circle jerk, you don't want people coming into your house just because new people suck, (As opposed to being a jerk) altho sucking is okay, unless its in your circle.
Think I got lost in that somewheres.
Anyways, what I am trying to say is that change is happening. We are getting a new ladder league in about a week. How did this happen? Because people aproached CANUCK SOLDIER, who then made the neccesary arangements to bring together a group of people who can make this happen. So, thats that.
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Post by cryptococcus on Jan 20, 2008 9:10:33 GMT -5
Marr is perfect example of problem with ladder.
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Post by chuckynorris on Jan 20, 2008 9:44:44 GMT -5
lol Marr. I dont claim to be better than you, especially not at making funny posts, although I did beat you 3 times in a row in 1v1 in about 20 minutes (maybe I was just lucky that day). but I would say that I'd pick GEFORCED over you any day, and perhaps others would too. Also I certainly never claimed to be elite.
Its not all about a group of people- some ray dont like me very much, but they still always let me into their games. I've never been booted from a ray game, instead met will yell at me and call me a lucky noob if I kill him, just as I do to him (although he has been doing the killing lately).
...I would usually always take the side against RAY, but i'm just telling it like it is
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Post by DustyDragoon on Jan 20, 2008 10:22:07 GMT -5
Hate to say it but, unfortunately, CS is correct. This version of CIV is being played as ladder alot less than Civ3 in the ladder form. I remember when Civ3 was up and running, you would always have at least one or 2 of each style of game up in the lobby for ladder games. Cton, Future Ancient Classical Medevil, teamers, OCC's, UU madness, and so on. Presently, I go to the lobby and I'm lucky if there is even one ladder game up. As a matter of fact, I am in the lobby right now and see none (Sunday Jan. 20, 2008 at 9:57am EST). This is a shame. Oh wait, longhorn just put up a 1v1. Anyways the big qustion, I would guess is why this is happening. Is it due to leadership of the ladder? My answer would be no. Canuck and others have done all they can and all that could feasibly be done to get the ladder up and going. Is it the "elitest's" that prefer to play with each other rather than playing with "noobs". Again my answer would be no. They (the Elite) don't make this ladder what it is and are just a small group compared to the rest of the ladder. The clans then it must be the clans that are causing all the problems such as RAY and MUD. Um No. The clans do what they must to survive and flourish. It is tough enough to keep a good solid clan together without having to worry about those in the ladder itself.
No, in my oppinion, it is none of the above, but instead the ladder membership as a whole. We (the ladder) seem to be missing the key people that made civ 3 ladder so successful. The people that took the time to help others and aid them in becoming number one players. We have far too many members that become "Elite" and then just pick and chose who they wish to teach all their skills, and also contribute little else to this ladder. A good indicator of that is to look at who the TD's are. None of them are what I would consider top players, yet they are the ones that help to keep this ladder going. Another factor is our appearance in the lobby. How we approach others and talk to others in the lobby. Why is it only Levi that I see promoting the ladder?? Occasionally Bantams and only a couple of others. If you see a non ladder asking questions, help them out. Show them how becoming a ladder member would enhance their enjoyment of the game. Don't belittle them! Don't sit there and run them down calling them noobs or jerks.
I really enjoyed my time in civ3 and met alot of great people there. And was hoping to have the same experience in CIV. But as time goes on, I find myself less and less willing to even try a game of CIV, mostly due to the rudeness and unwillingness of others in the game. I play the game to be competative and to enjoy myself in the company of others. I find it very hard to do this when people are cursing and name calling either me or others. Again refering back, this did not happen as much in Civ3. I don't know, maybe it is just me and the younger generation gets a kick out of berating each other rather than promoting good sportsmanship. Well enough from me and all the best to those that continue to try to get this ladder to grow. Thanks DustyDragoon
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Post by geforced on Jan 20, 2008 11:16:23 GMT -5
The problem with this ladder,
This is the only ladder i know of that you play team games, with random players, this is the one and only fault where all the hate and anger comes from.
(when has ctons ever created problems?)
Ladder teamers should be for clan games only, or each month you get several captains and they pick teams and compete for clan points on the ladder. The team with the most points at the end of the month is declared the winner.
This isnt a difficult system? infact i was working on somthing like this as some might know, but abandoned it when angelonearth declared the new ladder.
If the new ladder has been developed to be played with random teams, i fear it has, civ competition is going to suffer..
This is MADNESS!!!!
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Post by kurdape on Jan 20, 2008 11:32:46 GMT -5
How about posting the average rating of the top 5 players in each clan. Then we might get more clan competion durring the week. When one clan plays vs the other the #'s will change dramatically. I would suggest we post this on the ladder page.
Ape
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Post by cryptococcus on Jan 20, 2008 12:00:56 GMT -5
The problem with this ladder, This is the only ladder i know of that you play team games, with random players, this is the one and only fault where all the hate and anger comes from. (when has ctons ever created problems?) Ladder teamers should be for clan games only, or each month you get several captains and they pick teams and compete for clan points on the ladder. The team with the most points at the end of the month is declared the winner. This isnt a difficult system? infact i was working on somthing like this as some might know, but abandoned it when angelonearth declared the new ladder. If the new ladder has been developed to be played with random teams, i fear it has, civ competition is going to suffer.. This is MADNESS!!!! People don't play clan games because they prefer to get a lucky shuffle. Shuffle random teamers is what is killing the ladder imo.
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Post by chuckynorris on Jan 20, 2008 12:43:55 GMT -5
that is a really good idea ape I think.
we cap quite often, but sometimes it just takes a while
There are many new good players, they are the ones that listened to more experienced players and got better. Warlord is a pretty new player. I think I played with him once in a noob teamer, I saw he was willing to listen to more experienced players, and so he was invited to passworded teamers. He got pretty good fast. The problem is about 80% of new players think they are good and refuse to listen. When I see one of these players that dont listen, I never invite them to any other games, and then they complain that there is an elite group that wont let them play. When I first started, I begged for advice "where do i build my next city, etc," until people told me to shut up.
Why so many posts today from me? I'm hung over and pretty worthless right now anyway...
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Post by eiffel on Jan 20, 2008 13:04:18 GMT -5
People play random shuffle teamers because they got bored of waiting 1 hour in the room in order to pick teams and civs. It really was a nightmare most of the time. And actually, shuffle tbg seperate is a fun game with more excitement than in other formats. Maybe less strategic but funnier. There is fashion in civ... the shuffle tbg will end as other fashions did. When most players will be bored of it, they'll try something else.
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