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Post by eiffel on Jan 5, 2008 15:51:32 GMT -5
Rokkit, Am I asking special treatment because I made C4F ? Never asked for any special kind of treatment. Just a minimum of respect as any ladder member.
Bruce, nice politacally correct answer. You still don't get what was wrong with your booting and that's what is wrong.
About C4F ladder functions, they're not working anymore since the ladder server has moved (from plus1 to cgi6). I should make an update if the new ladder system is not to be released soon.
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Post by zzZhenon on Jan 5, 2008 16:29:16 GMT -5
There were elitists in C3P with the same issues as this. It's handled on a personal level, not a league-level. People are going to play with who they want to play with. If you want to punish the people doing it, do so by ostracism and threads such as this. But again, no need for admin intervention, imho.
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Post by rokkitlauncher on Jan 5, 2008 16:35:49 GMT -5
well canuck, if a guy remembers the pw from a previously hosted game that is scrapped, you should be allowed to boot them if they join. if booting players from your hosted game with your password when you are taking out the time to do deserves punishment, then i for one will not be playing teamers any more
as i said in pm, before commenting on the state of the ladder-teamer community, assess your own position as one who hasnt played them in at least 12 months.
elitism isnt bad, it is necessary for improvement games that last for 20 turns bcos one guy thinks going worker first after being told the opposition has warrior start are no fun.
sorry if i make no sense to you, but i dont expect to, as only people who regularly play the game will understand the issues regarding letting players who dont play the game play with people who play 2 or 3 games a day.
to eiffel, you clearly insinuated you should get special treament when you said "i dont like to waste my time on the community when i have spent so much time helping the community'' or whatever exact words you said. if you want to start a slugging war then we can just ban any SD2R person from our teamspeak server, but then we're taking it too far, as you have taken it too far, (and too personally) with bruce
you are also getting special treatment by banning bruce from c4f, and not banning other hosts who have kicked people from games, bcos this issue regards YOU.
as bruce said, if i was booted from a game bcos the host wanted to play a clan game and chose to boot me for whatever reason, i'd accept it, maybe give him a bit of hell in pm and move on.
i wouldnt completely freak out, take all action i can against him, post it on the forums and expect everyone to be on my side bcos i made some little program.
i have uninstalled civ4fans, whatcha gonna do now?
a game was just hosted in which a ray member booted a non ray member for what he deemed unacceptable behaviour in his game. all non-ray members left the game, im sure in fault of this thread saying "you guys make civ no fun"
thanks a lot FL
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Post by eiffel on Jan 5, 2008 17:05:54 GMT -5
Don't know who you're talking about when you say "guess the password"... in this game i asked for password and host gave me. If someone guesses your password, he's not officially invited and host can decide what to do with him. Elitism and private games aren't bad, that was in my first post, what is bad is giving pw then booting without explanation. Nothing more... And remember I pmed Bruce too. And those kind of issues have to be exposed in forum, i don't regret my post, maybe I should be sorry about that. You can uninstall C4F as long as you keep a channel for SD2R on your TS server . Btw, i didn't even know BruceBruce is in RAY, stop making it a RAY issue. And if a SD2R player acts like an ass, feel free to ban him from whatever you want.
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Post by Canucksoldier on Jan 5, 2008 17:47:28 GMT -5
There were elitists in C3P with the same issues as this. It's handled on a personal level, not a league-level. People are going to play with who they want to play with. If you want to punish the people doing it, do so by ostracism and threads such as this. But again, no need for admin intervention, imho. I agree Z, elitism is not intrinsically bad, in fact we as a league help create this by putting numbers besides peoples names. And we use this part of human nature to keep the league healthy by potentially harming players rank when they don't play by the rules. Of course there will always be players that either naturally or by hard work become better at this game than others. And they have every right to feel good about there accomplishments. And if they want to call themselves "elite" that is ok. The "double edged sword" part of this, is when a very few elite players start thinking that being better players at a computer game makes them better people, and therefore players that are not as good as them are by extension not as good people as they are, which of course makes it ok to verbally abuse them or kick them out of your games for no other reason than they are not part of your group. Now I in no way am saying that all elite players are like this, in fact most are not, but it only takes one or two to exhibit this behavior to tarnish everyone, and give the whole league a bad reputation. This is why we all have to be vigilant to ensure that this is not tolerated by anyone on the ladder, and you let people that are guilty of this know that it is not acceptable. CS P.S. Rokkit, just because I have been unable to play games during the fall due to my busy training schedule, doesn't mean I don't know what I am talking about, I've been playing Civ MP since Civ2 came out and human nature has not changed, and human nature is what this is all about, playing "teamers" in an online computer game is just one small facet of this and I've been engaged in a 20 year career that is all about leading people so I think I might know something about human nature, enough to make these comments.
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marr
Worker
Posts: 169
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Post by marr on Jan 5, 2008 18:21:42 GMT -5
If I can build on this, I would say that CS just owned you all! Punks, go back to civ 3:D
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Post by Lestat on Jan 5, 2008 19:49:00 GMT -5
I left playing teamers bc i was boted like tower to, before 2 years. But i dont posted names...only posted about elitizm. Posting names here bc that is girly, and boot some 1 from c4f is girly to. Also i never saw cs to argue like now abut elitizm till now. Maybe is this elitizm to. How many other players was boted and posted here and wath was respond ?
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Post by zzZhenon on Jan 5, 2008 20:01:58 GMT -5
that's because you play teamers like woumans...
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Post by TheBadSeed on Jan 5, 2008 20:45:08 GMT -5
I would like to start this out by apologizing to brucebruce for saying he's part of the problem. I've played in dozens of games that bruce has hosted, and never seen this behavior from him before. Too his credit as well, he did apologize to me immediately after booting me. I told him I thought it was BS to not just ask politely, and he agreed, and said he would in the future if that situation were to arise again. I can't speak for what happened between him and Eiffel. Bruce, I think, is guilty of caving to peer pressure, as I really dont think he made the decision on what to do in that case. a game was just hosted in which a ray member booted a non ray member for what he deemed unacceptable behaviour in his game. all non-ray members left the game, im sure in fault of this thread saying "you guys make civ no fun" So, I guess I'll tell a bit of a story here, as its much more than this thread that's causing people to not want to play with this attitude. This pre-dates the Eiffel incident by a couple days. Here's the situation, and for the purpose of anonymity, Im not going to use names, except my own. I'm sorry if its hard to follow because of that. This happened a few days ago. I'm in a 5v5 anc seperated game, my team is team 1. My team consists of myself, (RaYplayer1), (RaYplayer2), (formerRaYplayer) and (unaffiliated). The games going, (formerRaYplayer) is choked badly, and is asking for help from (unaffiliated). (unaffiliated) is busy trying to kill one of the players that is on his side of the map instead of helping (formerRaYplayer) to break the choke. Game is to turn 50 or so, and Me, (RaYplayer1) and (RaYplayer2) go to make an attack on someone on our side of the map. I ask what the plan is, and (RaYplayer2) says I dunno, ask (RaYplayer1). (RaYplayer1) doesnt talk at all, so I just follow along with what I have, which is about 8 chariots. Our attack consisted of 8 chariots from me, 10 chariots from (RaYplayer1) and a stack of about 12 units, mostly swords and spears from (RaYplayer2). It seems we're going for a player up-top, but finally (unaffiliatedplayer) takes a city down below. The roading route changes, and we start heading for the south. I make a mistake and road one space too far. My bad. However, to make up for that mistake, I broke my chariots from the main group, which was not seen yet, and move around for a back city. I did this because I had spied on the victims cities a few turns ago, and knew he had war elephants, spears, and adequate defense for what was coming at him, and my chariots werent going to be effective on the frontal attack we were aiming for. Both (RaYplayer1) and (RaYPlayer2) both start pinging my chariots and saying WTF! I said I'm going for the back city, and I pinged where I was going. About this time, game splits, and gets reloaded. In the staging room, (RaYplayer1): TBS, let me ask you a question. TheBadSeed: Not here. (RaYplayer1): What makes you think he built a city in the middle of the desert? TheBadSeed: Dude! Not here! (RaYPlayer2): Do we have to hold your hand all game? You made 2 big mistakes on this attack! TheBadSeed: NOT HERE! (Bear in mind, we're in vote screen, so I dont want to give away my plan) I switch to private chat with (RaYplayer1) TheBadSeed: I'm sneaking around to the back city, when he sees what you two are sending, I'm betting his back city is going to be empty. The one (unaffiliated) was just spying. TheBadSeed: My chariots are going to be inconsequential on those cities, they are defended by war elephants and spears. (RaYplayer1): (unaffiliated) already took that city. TheBadSeed: Not that one, the other one. I'm there in 2 turns. (game resumes) (RaYPlayer1) and (RayPlayer2) arrive at the opposing teams front cities, They are well defended. They have no chance of taking the cities, in the meantime, I sneak my chariots around the back and find his back city defended by 1 war elephant, so I take it, opposing civ dies. Our team loses virtually nothing. TheBadSeed: Told ya A few turns pass TheBadSeed: Can I at least get a little props from you guys after having to listen to you guys insult me? (RaYPlayer1): Good job. A turn later, (formerRaYplayer) dies after being choked all game. (RaYPlayer1 and (RaYPlayer2) continue their attack toward the civ that killed (formerRayPlayer) (formerRaYplayer) stays in the game and says "If I were them, I would go for (RaYplayer1). (RaYPlayer1): No way. (RaYplayer2): Shut up, you cant even handle a simple choke! A couple turns later, the enemy shows up with plenty to kill (RaYplayer1) and he dies quickly. The attack down south on the second civ fails, and we concede. GG So, (RaYplayer1) hosts another game. Someone (not the host, granted) says join, password is (xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx) So I join, I'm 5th or 6th in. Game fills, and I get the boot. (SD2Rplayer): You lose connection? TheBadSeed: No, I got booted. (SD2Rplayer): Why? TheBadSeed: (RaYplayer1) isnt happy that he was wrong last game. (SD2Rplayer): What a f@g. I dont carry shlt from one game to the next. TheBadSeed: Me neither. (MUDPlayer): TBS, you get booted? TheBadSeed: Yep (MUDplayer): Take my spot, I don't need to play that crap. TheBadSeed: Naah. let him look for someone else. -- Now, that's a pretty detailed rendition of what happened. Left out a few more attacks from (RaYplayer1) and (RaYplayer2) against (formerRaYplayer). Was that an example on my part of "unacceptable behavior in the game"? I don't think so. I acted on a hunch, the hunch was right, and helped us. I don't get into the player bashing that others do, as I dont think its good sportsmanship. I know, however, that this is common practice among certain players. Rokkit, since you are defending RaY players behavior, I'd be happy to fill in the names for you if you're interested, but I know this behavior isnt new, and i'd say the reaction of people leaving the game has more to do with people just getting fed up with it than it does with this thread.
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Post by warlorddr on Jan 6, 2008 3:03:28 GMT -5
I have never posted anything in these forums before, but i feel i must now. It seems some ladder members are feeling that they have been wronged and I am taking the brunt of the fallout. I have just read this thread, for the first time, after I was "TREATED TO A LITTLE OF MY OWN MEDICINE." So now I will say the other side of the story. 1) Eiffel yes being booted from games without reason is wrong and I am guilty of doing that on more than one occasion. I never in wildest dreams believed that people took a video game so seriously as to cause such emotional distress. So to all of you people who I have so horribly offended or emotionally scared from booting you, from a video game, I sincerely apologize. 2) TheBadSeed i see you are a picture of perfection. What is the old adage "2 wrongs dint make a right" or is it "an eye for an eye" or maybe its "anything you can do i can do it better" what ever you call it you have used this thread and your recent actions where you in fact booted me from a game after opening space from me. You see here is the difference I dont care, one my clan members was in that game and he asked me if he should leave. I said "Nah if this is what will help these people heal from the deep emotional bruising they have received from me, go ahead have fun, this is just a video game to me no big deal" Regarding your other post about (raymember1) and (raymember2) you failed to get your facts rights right before you persecute. Diva or Scottish (whatever she wants to be at the time) made a comment that i booted you because i was mad i was wrong the previous game is completely wrong and out of line. if i recall i apologized during that game immediately after i saw your sneak attack around the back of that player and even went so far as to congratulate you on your skill. If you honestly think i am so shallow as to boot you from any game in the future that you might be in yo are sadly mistaken, even twisted in your own thought IMO. You were booted because i was inviting to that game and you were not one that i invited, which you even admit. If that is a crime than i am a criminal. I am not sure why said raymember(youngdiva) took it upon herself to tell you what and why did what i did. Know this for sure, If you have a problem with something I do regarding you or anyone else you feel you need to include we can handle this like adults. There are many ways to contact each other in private. But, if every time you feel wronged by me and you have to post a thread in this forums to vent or get your point out, at least have the common courtesy to let me know you have been roasting me. Especially when your story is not fully correct because you have drawn your own assumptions without getting all the facts or even trying to get the facts by asking the principles involved. On second thought here is my email address travisburnsdr@msn.com If anyone who has in the last several days taken an undesirable opinion of me or my actions feel free to drop me an email. If that is difficult i will gladly give you my phone number and we can talk it out. But this has gotten completely out of control. Have you people forgotten we are playing a video game and not life here. Maybe take a step back from the game if these problems in a video game cause you so much harm and find what in your real life is the problem.
sincerely yours: The New not a very nice person Of the Ladder WarlordDr
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Post by AngelofLove on Jan 6, 2008 3:36:52 GMT -5
ok, sorry eiffel.sorry TBS ,sorry RAY clan sorry you all feel wronged its over , its done with can we all just stop fighting now . I LOVE YOU , YOU LOVE ME , WERE A GREAT BIG HAPPY FAMILY , WITH A KISS AND HUG FROM ME TO YOU . now just the hell up and lets move on.
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Post by deyreepher on Jan 6, 2008 3:39:33 GMT -5
If I am following this thread correctly, someone was booted from a game and they took offense at that action. Others felt that the wronged party was justified in their feeling offended.
Wronged party then uses a tool that is supposed to be for the ladder to use and bans the suspected members that took part in this booting incident.
This all makes it up to the forums and the lurkers come out to start ripping at people on both sides of the issue.
My question is, where the hell are the damn forum moderators? In my opinion, this is a valid ladder concern if there are players being booted from games with no particular reason given. If it is agreed upon by the admins that this is an issue that needs to be addressed by the admin team, then why is this dirty laundry being aired?
Let's fix the forum moderation Standard Operating Procedure before we start pointing fingers.
There was a breakdown in the complaint system in that nobody ever takes their issues to the admins, they come immediately to the forums to rant and rave (I am plenty guilty of this infraction) and then the admin team is sitting there with no particular authority to do anything. You want to run the ladder, run the damn ladder. You're letting all of us run amok doing what we want.
You've already failed to fix the ranking system to the point where no one gives a damn about it, so now you've got this chaos on your hands.
The hallmark of a good civ player is analysis and problem solving. If you can't see how your lack of leadership and poor choice of admins is sabotaging the ladder, then by all means, blame the players. If I remember correctly, one of the admins was in a noob teamer and purposely sabotaged a game by deleting his initial settler in an ancient game. Way to set an example.
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marr
Worker
Posts: 169
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Post by marr on Jan 6, 2008 5:07:17 GMT -5
Be nice if you had a small clue Dey about what you are talking about, your post might make some sense. Disjointed and lost and all that nuts. Reading your post reminds me of a burnt out boxer, kinda trying to get the flow, but ya know, just going with a thought that has nowheres ta go.
Anyways Dey, you didn't follow the thread correctly, has nothing to do with what you thought, so crawl back into that hole you call a thought and suck yourself to orgasm.
Next time you want to ride the Admins, at least flirt a little you pillow biting leper.
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Post by Bantams on Jan 6, 2008 5:35:15 GMT -5
Noobs Eiffel was booted from a teamer after being GIVEN the password for the game! Its Unsportsmanship If I was Eiffel id remove all of the RAY clan from C4F not just the one Smacktard
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Post by Lestat on Jan 6, 2008 10:28:53 GMT -5
Noobs Eiffel was booted from a teamer after being GIVEN the password for the game! Its Unsportsmanship If I was Eiffel id remove all of the GAY clan from C4F not just the one Smacktard STOP DRINKING... C4F IS 1 THING BOOTING FROM GAME IS SECOND EG: IF I KILL LONGHORN IN GAME HE WILL BOXING ME 7 DAY BC HES ADMIN... ? IF U DONT UNDERSTAND IM SOOOO SORY PS I got pw to when i was boted before 2 years
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Post by lordelgis on Jan 6, 2008 14:20:25 GMT -5
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Post by Canucksoldier on Jan 6, 2008 18:17:20 GMT -5
Dey, no complaint about unsportsmanlike behavior was ever made to the admin team about any specific player, with out that we normally do not take action without evidence. My comments in this thread were aimed at what I see as a systemic problem with a small minority of players and there actions. I don't see what the current ranking system has to do with behavior of ladder players, and for that matter we are in the process of creating a new custom designed league software to replace Myleague.
If you think that some actions on my part can change or effect this problem, let me know, but personally I doubt that any leadership quality on my part can make people become better sports and act in a more mature fashion.
I have let this thread progress as I see it as a good "forum" for people on both sides of this argument to vent and let there emotions be known, as this issue is really about how people *feel* about the situation. Hopefully at the end of this people will realize that there actions do have a real effect of the lives of others even if it is just a computer game.
CS
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Post by TheBadSeed on Jan 6, 2008 18:27:17 GMT -5
I have never posted anything in these forums before, but i feel i must now. It seems some ladder members are feeling that they have been wronged and I am taking the brunt of the fallout. I have just read this thread, for the first time, after I was "TREATED TO A LITTLE OF MY OWN MEDICINE." So now I will say the other side of the story. 2) TheBadSeed i see you are a picture of perfection. What is the old adage "2 wrongs dint make a right" or is it "an eye for an eye" or maybe its "anything you can do i can do it better" what ever you call it you have used this thread and your recent actions where you in fact booted me from a game after opening space from me. WarlordDr Just thought I'd point out, warlord, that I was neither the one who hosted that game, nor was I the one who shouted for you to be kicked. When metallian asked why it happened, I did offer up the explanation of why, but I certainly wasnt the one who did it or asked for it to be done.
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Post by MMV on Jan 6, 2008 19:09:51 GMT -5
I take offense to my clan being referred to as "GaY Elgis is VERY correct about that and properly so "GaY" is no longer politically correct and as I understand, very insensitive to those who choose that specific clan way of life Come on everyone - let's treat them properly without the bad words and insensitive posts - Henceforth, they should be called the "Alternative Lifestyle Clan" (perhaps "Raylternative" for short)
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Post by deyreepher on Jan 6, 2008 19:37:15 GMT -5
Be nice if you had a small clue Dey about what you are talking about, your post might make some sense. Disjointed and lost and all that nuts. Reading your post reminds me of a burnt out boxer, kinda trying to get the flow, but ya know, just going with a thought that has nowheres ta go. Anyways Dey, you didn't follow the thread correctly, has nothing to do with what you thought, so crawl back into that hole you call a thought and suck yourself to orgasm. Next time you want to ride the Admins, at least flirt a little you pillow biting leper. Ok, so perhaps I don't have all the details of what happened. If you would like to enlighten me, by all means, I will go over your response and then go over the earlier posts made. As for the second part of my post, I will gladly summarize it for you. 1. I see that there is a problem with the code of conduct on the ladder, the booting of an invited player being the latest in a string of complaints. 2. I pointed out some of the inactions and poor leadership of the ladder administrators as background as to how this situation could have arisen. 3. I gave a starting point as to where the administrators can begin to clean up the ladder to bring its standards back up to where we all believe it should be. The consensus I am reading is that the ladder has its full of rude, obnoxious, and not very sportsmanlike players. We supposedly have standards, but maybe they are not clear enough. 4. Your post is a perfect example of what everyone is complaining about: a lack of decorum and civility. My opinion is that the administrators have not performed to the standards that they have set. I did not need to call them names, bring them down, but I did point out their deficiencies. So that is my response to your comments on my post. Please feel free to fill me in on the original situation that brought up the need for the original author's post. If you feel that there is no connection between my post and the original author's complaint, let me know on which points I am being unclear. I will do my best to clear up any misunderstandings.
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