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Post by friedrichpsitalon on Nov 11, 2005 17:37:35 GMT -5
Normally I wouldn't put a notification post up, but there has been a lot of talk here in General about advantages of the defender, etc. I've posted a strategy article that speaks at length on the subject and holds no secrets. Hopefully this will help a lot of you. Enjoy the reading.
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Post by ozmono2005 on Nov 11, 2005 21:22:39 GMT -5
I'll do a quick article here szun style Know the land know your enemy know yourself do the maths
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Cruise
Settler
Dutchy
Posts: 45
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Post by Cruise on Nov 12, 2005 2:57:10 GMT -5
I think killing strategies will evolve.
However, i dont see a solution for defending egypt/persia when they're close with horses. Of course in SP it's fine but in MP it's unbalanced.
Another point: Exp civs start with a scout and others with a warrior. If the warrior with woodsman II finds the exp guy early you cant defend with your scout.
Imo in MP those things should be evened out to easily reduce the luck factor. A solution would be to assign chariots to a later tech, and to let exp civs start with a scout and the others without the warrior.
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Post by hauptman on Nov 12, 2005 10:05:40 GMT -5
I cant even fathom the amount of luck required to get a goodie hut with a 1 move unit, then move him in the correct direction to see and attack your capital within the 6 or 7 turns it would take you to build your first unit.
You must not be cranking out units first if you fall victim to this.
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Post by yilar on Nov 12, 2005 10:43:09 GMT -5
You must not be cranking out units first if you fall victim to this. Some people insist on doing worker first... I killed my neighbours yesterday cause they did worker first. I managed to get 4 out of 5 workers from enemies
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Post by Avogadro on Nov 12, 2005 23:48:44 GMT -5
I remember that game..Mr Yilar quick draw
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Cruise
Settler
Dutchy
Posts: 45
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Post by Cruise on Nov 13, 2005 7:34:23 GMT -5
I cant even fathom the amount of luck required to get a goodie hut with a 1 move unit, then move him in the correct direction to see and attack your capital within the 6 or 7 turns it would take you to build your first unit. You must not be cranking out units first if you fall victim to this. I've seen this happen a number of times already. You underestimate the likeliness of this to occur.
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Post by friedrichpsitalon on Nov 13, 2005 7:46:28 GMT -5
It does appear to be a threat whenever you're playing a direct access map (Pangea/Lakes) on duel, but I'm not sure it's an issue anywhere else. Personally, I just don't play those maps on those settings.
Has this been happening frequently on tiny as well?
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Post by Sly_time on Nov 13, 2005 13:18:40 GMT -5
this does seem to be happenning frequently both for and against me...one example i was on a small patch of land about 4 wide land bridge...to my north was a civ and to my south was a civ...i could see the borders to my south and with 2 moves could see the borders to my north...with that starting position i had nothign i could do...i was building warriors as fast as i could but was being rushed from both sides...the settings was 3 person on tiny...
i also played recently where i had an early 6 turn kill but within that 6 turns i saw 2 other civs borders so with 6 moves i saw 3 borders...this was on 6 person small lakes map
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Post by civerdan on Nov 16, 2005 14:52:33 GMT -5
Best advice against Persia/egypt is head straight for Bronze and hot you have copper/iron close. If I am in a critical situation i will forgo stuff like early religion research (esp if I do not start with Mysticism) and head to the critical military tech. One game I was very close to rome and was Germany (ugh) and decided I needed axes asap.
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Post by MMV on Nov 16, 2005 17:58:18 GMT -5
you mean (gasp)........ what you're trying to say is (let me find the words)......
actually PLAN your strategy based on what civs are in the game and which ones are near you?
EXACTLY!!!
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Post by claudelu on Nov 16, 2005 19:29:48 GMT -5
Everyone thinks they're smarter than the other guy... You can plan whatever you want, but while you get to Bronze working (need mining too, if you don't start with it) and HOPE to get copper, AND get a worker out AND connect the copper AND build an spearman... I might have 2-3 chariots already, and even if I don't kill you, I choke you, and I get a religion, I take my time, build a settler... all the while you're just dealing with my 3 chariots... that IF you are lucky.
Advantage, me. Enough said.
Of course this applies only if:
a) we are very close (max 5 squares from our extended borders.
b) I have horses in my capital's borders.
If I do, there is little you can do. Even if you are Greece...
Enuff said.
PS: It is feasible to go to archery instead , archers defend well vs. war chariots. But the problem remains, I pester your land and your archers can't remove me. In fact, only spearmen can. Good luck having copper and linking it.
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Post by friedrichpsitalon on Nov 16, 2005 20:23:50 GMT -5
I believe if you check the news on Apolyton for the coming patch, you will find this situation has been resolved satisfactorily.
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Post by claudelu on Nov 16, 2005 20:46:58 GMT -5
Animal Husbandry reveals horses starting the new patch... I guess that's great - you won't be building specifically next to horses, as before. But if you do happen to have horse in capital, then there is no difference... you needed AH to build the pasture and use the horses, anyway, didn't you?
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Post by ghost on Nov 16, 2005 21:17:00 GMT -5
Animal Husbandry reveals horses starting the new patch... I guess that's great - you won't be building specifically next to horses, as before. But if you do happen to have horse in capital, then there is no difference... you needed AH to build the pasture and use the horses, anyway, didn't you? well you can build on the horses and build chartiots right from start without ah. but u will be giving up a pretty good tile inside your capt just to build 1 chartiot before u get ah.
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Post by friedrichpsitalon on Nov 16, 2005 22:00:44 GMT -5
Animal Husbandry reveals horses starting the new patch... I guess that's great - you won't be building specifically next to horses, as before. But if you do happen to have horse in capital, then there is no difference... you needed AH to build the pasture and use the horses, anyway, didn't you? Two important advantages are removed: 1- Being able to build on the resource and skipping the need for a worker altogether. 2- Not knowing whether or not you even SHOULD research that tech.
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Post by themagiceye on Nov 20, 2005 22:24:29 GMT -5
Not sure if overpowering ressource dependent units (like chariots) should be tweaked at all - i think it was even intended to be like this....i remember 100´s of players that liked future in c3c and it was never a balanced game at all. Either have a ressource or get crushed...sure there was still room to defend but not really btwn players of even skill. After all i think thats what made the game pretty attractive....as an average player u could turn out to beat the best of the best with a little ressource luck. If u want a more balanced early game heres my suggestion...open the modder...set all chariots to 3 hp (leave some anti-archer bonus for immortals, and add it to the gypt chariot too)...at least u can effieciently fight off the choke now with something like 2 warriors p chariot
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