|
Post by Elledge on May 11, 2006 16:36:39 GMT -5
I agree that high ranks tend to stay high ranks by inertia and playing each other. That's exactly how the rank system is designed. So what?
Nobody uses rank as a measure of quality; it's a measure of activity. Win percentage and skill rating can start to measure quality.
This point is a dead horse though ;D
|
|
|
Post by DrShot on May 11, 2006 16:45:01 GMT -5
This forum has become a true representation of the 'game' itself: nothing more than a big pissing contest. That is very sad in itself.
However, seeing some of the people that are 'supposed' to be representitive of the ladder talking so much garbage makes me wonder why there are any ladder games available. I have not played in several weeks, perhaps things have changed, duno.
I got one for you(self-proclaimed) hero's... how about : 'Do it my way or the highway Ren(teamer) ladder game' Thats sounding more like the tone I have seen set here.
Sure there is a distinct difference between some putz playing his very own game oblivious to the rest of said team compared to someone not taking orders from some "know it all" (I can think of 7 that come to mind INSTANTLY and 4 are losers IMO 2 being of only above average play) I have witnessed people put those 'signs' for every city they want for an entire game up by turn 10(up to 12 cities LOL) often in crazy spots not concerned with terrain/benefits or neighbors.
Sure, no one is to be a slave to the whim of the captain or a single player. Yet the player that wants to be 'coach' should stick to hotseat or some crap where he can play everyones exact move(likely still not pleased) to his 'all knowing ' carnal knowledge of civ.
Hope I posted in the correct thread here, the title has me a little concerned "Re: brainless peope playing civ" if they had brains would they then be 'people'? ;D
|
|
|
Post by Avogadro on May 11, 2006 16:51:55 GMT -5
I agree with you Shot.
If a captain wants to run the show and have others do it their way then....that's what the CCC is for. How many teamers have I lost in Civ2-Civ3-Conquest-Civ4 because someone died early? Countless times, big whoop. I also won quite a few games cause Zaxxon killed half the map or Reptile scored like a mad man. Worry less about the stats and enjoy the game.
No one with any pride will do it "Your" way to make ya happy. We all have to learn. Alot of the noobs do not play 5 matches a day so you can expect it take longer to learn the game. Anyone who plays it 5-6 hours a day had better have it all figured out.
|
|
|
Post by Tony on May 11, 2006 21:06:43 GMT -5
I personally didnt see the piont of this thread in the first place, and its direction was very predictable.
People on the left saying, i dont want new players messing up my games, and those on the right saying we gotta intergrate them.
The bottom line is your gonna do what you feel like doing, if you want to play with newer players in a hope they will become good then fine, if you only want those that are decent then thats also fine.
Im not saying im really good, but everything i know has come from playing the game. The simple truth is, if you want to get good...play more. Those that have been playing since day 1 did not read articles or have anyone to teach them how to play, this knowledge has come from experiance and trial-and-error. This is BY FAR FAR FAR the best way to learn, as it makes your skills adaptable to changes in circumstances, what to reseach, where to move units and most importantly why. If you are copying other peoples play or too reliant on articles or whatever they are called, then your play becomes very plastic and artificial, there are MANY examples of this but the most common is people reseaching silly stuff which they dont have the resources for, just because they have been told this is a good course of action.
So my advice to those that cry about not getting invited into the high rank teamers is this ... PLAY MORE CRY LESS AND STOP LOOKING FOR EASY ANSWERS.
Tommy himself will tell you his teamers are not that exclusive, the requirement is that you are average which is a standard that can be obtianed reasonablly quickly.
My 2 cents
|
|
|
Post by Elledge on May 11, 2006 21:37:25 GMT -5
Tony says it quite well.
|
|
|
Post by Ascension on May 11, 2006 22:03:47 GMT -5
You call me a newb ? YOU HAHAAHA well i better expletive deleted my post, but yea you have the skill right ? No Germ i said that in ladder are :noobs, experts no matter. Ladder is league of 500 registered players German.. noob, experts no matter. If those teamer noobs think that they are ladder im out of here. Lestat seems to be having difficulty grasping the content of Germania's post. I am exceedingly accomplished at comprehending others writings and dialog. I am glad to use my talents to translate and help my fellow ladder members to better understand each other and improve the community whenever possible. You call me a newb ?Are you saying that I, Germanina, am a person of little experience in regards to the CIV game? Do you think I have not played many games and lack the skills and expertise necessary to adequately function during a CIV game? YOU HAHAAHAThat, coming from you, Lestat, a person I am absolutely certain has far less knowledge of the CIV game than myself. Don't make me guffaw uncontrollably and have the liquid I'm drinking squirt out of my nose due to your preposterous boast. well i better expletive deleted my post, Well, if this is true, it would be prudent to delete all my gosh darn post but it's not, so I won't. but yea you have the skill right ? But you, Lestat, seem to think yourself very adept at CIV. Not hardly, IMO. Personally, I think you are a poor player and have not reached the proper level of skill to be criticizing anybody. UnspokenI think I have a crush on Lestat and an deliriously pleased he's thinking of me and I appreciate the fact the he cares enough to mention me in his post. I hope that clears up the confusion regarding post for you Lestat, my favorite flamboyant vampire.. Just let me know if my services are needed again in the future. It is always a joy for me to help out. Edit: Whoops, Everyone was talking at once and I got off track. It was Zerza who didn't understand.
|
|
|
Post by weaksauce on May 12, 2006 2:46:23 GMT -5
I personally didnt see the piont of this thread in the first place, and its direction was very predictable. People on the left saying, i dont want new players messing up my games, and those on the right saying we gotta intergrate them. The bottom line is your gonna do what you feel like doing, if you want to play with newer players in a hope they will become good then fine, if you only want those that are decent then thats also fine. Im not saying im really good, but everything i know has come from playing the game. The simple truth is, if you want to get good...play more. Those that have been playing since day 1 did not read articles or have anyone to teach them how to play, this knowledge has come from experiance and trial-and-error. This is BY FAR FAR FAR the best way to learn, as it makes your skills adaptable to changes in circumstances, what to reseach, where to move units and most importantly why. If you are copying other peoples play or too reliant on articles or whatever they are called, then your play becomes very plastic and artificial, there are MANY examples of this but the most common is people reseaching silly stuff which they dont have the resources for, just because they have been told this is a good course of action. So my advice to those that cry about not getting invited into the high rank teamers is this ... PLAY MORE CRY LESS AND STOP LOOKING FOR EASY ANSWERS. Tommy himself will tell you his teamers are not that exclusive, the requirement is that you are average which is a standard that can be obtianed reasonablly quickly. My 2 cents in my experience, tom lets all kinds of diff skilled people in his hosted team games. the people who never get invited are those with attitude problems... people who just aren't pleasant to play with in these games or have serious connection problems. True others who get denied probably are those who completely screw up in previous games beyond all rational comprehension (not even remotely avg player). But really a lot of people who aren't of a comparable skill to someone else already in the staging room get denied (cuz balanced teams matters most). I would emphasize to people: I see a lot of people get denied access to a staging rooms/ladder team games and they immediately assume it's becuz people don't like them or people think they are noobs.... often time the real reason is that there isn't someone else of comparable skill, to keep the teams balanced. If there is a group of 8 pro/expert guys... Tom, Islandia, Germania, etc.... they aren't gonna take a random/average guy into the room unless there is another one around, to keep things balanced and fair. It's not personal... people just want a fair competitive game, and when 1 avg player/noob-in-training in a group of 10 people screws up an entire game... it practically becomes a waste of everyone's time.
|
|
|
Post by Lestat on May 12, 2006 8:51:18 GMT -5
I personally didnt see the piont of this thread in the first place, and its direction was very predictable. People on the left saying, i dont want new players messing up my games, and those on the right saying we gotta intergrate them. The bottom line is your gonna do what you feel like doing, if you want to play with newer players in a hope they will become good then fine, if you only want those that are decent then thats also fine. Im not saying im really good, but everything i know has come from playing the game. The simple truth is, if you want to get good...play more. Those that have been playing since day 1 did not read articles or have anyone to teach them how to play, this knowledge has come from experiance and trial-and-error. This is BY FAR FAR FAR the best way to learn, as it makes your skills adaptable to changes in circumstances, what to reseach, where to move units and most importantly why. If you are copying other peoples play or too reliant on articles or whatever they are called, then your play becomes very plastic and artificial, there are MANY examples of this but the most common is people reseaching silly stuff which they dont have the resources for, just because they have been told this is a good course of action. So my advice to those that cry about not getting invited into the high rank teamers is this ... PLAY MORE CRY LESS AND STOP LOOKING FOR EASY ANSWERS. Tommy himself will tell you his teamers are not that exclusive, the requirement is that you are average which is a standard that can be obtianed reasonablly quickly. My 2 cents No one crying here. Look topic name. I played much games with those "experts" and they dont playing like wot was writening in reny help. To be precious i mention only on 2 guys others are ok. Some of those wise guys build mine on hill near to mine border and just left it without to buil road or dont support border civ etc.. Congrat tomy i saw u yesterday hosting teamer which is full of new and vets players.
|
|
|
Post by Lestat on May 12, 2006 8:53:38 GMT -5
I personally didnt see the piont of this thread in the first place, and its direction was very predictable. People on the left saying, i dont want new players messing up my games, and those on the right saying we gotta intergrate them. The bottom line is your gonna do what you feel like doing, if you want to play with newer players in a hope they will become good then fine, if you only want those that are decent then thats also fine. Im not saying im really good, but everything i know has come from playing the game. The simple truth is, if you want to get good...play more. Those that have been playing since day 1 did not read articles or have anyone to teach them how to play, this knowledge has come from experiance and trial-and-error. This is BY FAR FAR FAR the best way to learn, as it makes your skills adaptable to changes in circumstances, what to reseach, where to move units and most importantly why. If you are copying other peoples play or too reliant on articles or whatever they are called, then your play becomes very plastic and artificial, there are MANY examples of this but the most common is people reseaching silly stuff which they dont have the resources for, just because they have been told this is a good course of action. So my advice to those that cry about not getting invited into the high rank teamers is this ... PLAY MORE CRY LESS AND STOP LOOKING FOR EASY ANSWERS. Tommy himself will tell you his teamers are not that exclusive, the requirement is that you are average which is a standard that can be obtianed reasonablly quickly. My 2 cents in my experience, tom lets all kinds of diff skilled people in his hosted team games. the people who never get invited are those with attitude problems... people who just aren't pleasant to play with in these games or have serious connection problems. True others who get denied probably are those who completely screw up in previous games beyond all rational comprehension (not even remotely avg player). But really a lot of people who aren't of a comparable skill to someone else already in the staging room get denied (cuz balanced teams matters most). I would emphasize to people: I see a lot of people get denied access to a staging rooms/ladder team games and they immediately assume it's becuz people don't like them or people think they are noobs.... often time the real reason is that there isn't someone else of comparable skill, to keep the teams balanced. If there is a group of 8 pro/expert guys... Tom, Islandia, Germania, etc.... they aren't gonna take a random/average guy into the room unless there is another one around, to keep things balanced and fair. It's not personal... people just want a fair competitive game, and when 1 avg player/noob-in-training in a group of 10 people screws up an entire game... it practically becomes a waste of everyone's time. ALL MENTIONED ABOVE IS WASTE OF FOURM SPACE.
|
|
|
Post by Sidhe on May 12, 2006 14:09:18 GMT -5
Dr Shot, Longhorn and Tony: good constructive posts. I haven't played in a while like Dr Shot, not due to anything major just disliking pre patch games and a heavy work load, yeah real life does matter I'm hoping to get back to the game in a few weeks, and maybe play a few ctons between times, I'm hoping teamers aren't represented by bitching, they certainly haven't been when I played but then again I'm behind the times I suspect . Tommynt is an especially good player to play with, because I've yet to see him lose his temper even when someone f***s up bad, people should take notice of those players who remain in control in adversity and don't resort to pissing at others, criticism is fine, but if your spending all your time berating your players, all chance at teamwork has gone, morale is low, and you've just alienated your team, I've seen it happen, it's not pleasant and it's not very clever either. Get over it move on, you should be asking what can we do now to turn the tables, surely? Save the bitching 'til post game as someone else said, spilt milk obviously. In C3c there were players you just wouldn't play with because they were prima donnas with an attitude, who liked to dictate everything, I've only once seen this happen in CIV so I'm hoping those sort of players are in a minority. Last time I played in the CCC, someone threw a comment my way suggesting I was just here to lose: I said no actually I'm here to have some fun, you aught to try it some time; man this is a game, try not to take it so seriously, at the end of the day the winners are those who had the most fun in a game, win or lose. I am certainly not much more than a noob especially in teamers, and wouldn't deign to sit there dictating a game, and I personally like to watch and learn, noobs should take that to heart. As David Brent so wisely said:- There's no 'I' in 'team'. But then there's no 'I' in 'useless smug colleague', either. And there's four in 'platitude-quoting idiot'. Go figure. ;D
|
|
|
Post by tommynt on May 12, 2006 14:42:28 GMT -5
Sidhe back in Forums - somehow nice - somehow some scrolling work
|
|
|
Post by Sidhe on May 12, 2006 16:04:14 GMT -5
lol sorry, I'll try and keep it brief if I can, anyway just played a cton, just realised the pre patch crap I used to use to stay alive sans resources is now redundant, man I'm a noob in ctons again, this is going to be fun
|
|
|
Post by weaksauce on May 12, 2006 18:58:27 GMT -5
lestat, i love you, like fat kid love cake.
|
|
|
Post by DrShot on May 13, 2006 2:10:27 GMT -5
"Hey Shot when ya coming to kick my butt again? Keep saying Dr.Shot 3 times and nothing happens. lol " Hmm, I bet you didn't click your heels together 3x as well, did you? Try it, it just may work Ed. sp
|
|
|
Post by zzZhenon on May 13, 2006 13:43:52 GMT -5
Part of the challenge in C3C team games is to figure out what's going on for the whole map without it being displayed right at your face. Yeah I think it might be more challenging if those that you are permanently aligned with could see each others static maps. In other words, maybe at the beginning of each turn, your map would be updated, and not a constantly updating-as-it-happens map. but anywho... sounds nice in theory Does this post make any sense?
|
|
|
Post by DrShot on May 13, 2006 14:12:41 GMT -5
No, do you?
|
|
|
Post by zzZhenon on May 13, 2006 15:18:22 GMT -5
No, do you? Where've you been you dirty old man?
|
|
|
Post by Ellestar on May 15, 2006 6:48:26 GMT -5
i really tried everything - i said pls all do this tech fexample to get another tech from oracöe after - no change .. i keept on saying it for 3 turns - very polite jsut pls do he tech .. 2 out of 5 just didnt That was me and Jose7 IIRC. Well, you said to switch it for the first time when i was busy moving units near the end of the turn and after that i just forgot it. CAPS work better IMHO in that case, at least it's easy to spot it The problem was that i was ill and i forgot to take medicine like aspirin etc. like i did in previous days (i thought i already should have been fine this time, but Civ 4 is a strenuous activity). That was my first, most important mistake. Unfortunately, it's hard to notice if can play good enough or you can't before the game. But it may be easily tracked after the game by a very big amount of mistakes, wrong decisions etc. So, i made some mistakes in this game and i thought that you'll be the captain this time (i said that i expect you to be a captain in this game while we were in lobby, you didn't said no) but you didn't act as one so effectively we had no captain and we lost because of several strategic mistakes. If i got some help a little earlier while being 2v1 we should have won it for sure. We had 2 best productions in the game, very big land size lead thanks to east flank and about the same research. We lost solely because of lack of coordination and planning. I expected some help after i said several times that Power graphs doesn't look good for me and later when i pointed that they have a big stack near me. I thought that you'll coordinate our efforts as a captain but you was too busy wasting time with Jose7 instead. Well, my 2nd biggest mistake was that i shouldn't have counted on you. Generally you're a good captain. Sweviking (IIRC it was him) was sending all his units to the left in an attempt to kill Nero in 2v1 (not a safe thing to do, he should have thought that if they're 2v1 on the left that means that we're 1v2 on the right as well so he should think about both flanks). Jose7 didn't think about anything. You sent all your troops to Jose7. Unfortunately, players didn't think about overall strategy (IMHO it's not much to ask in an Ancient TBG teamer with 8 veteran players out of 10). So, without a captain thinking for everyone our team lost. so i think oh people dont like my techa dvice - so i follew em and we end up having cataspults 20 t after opponents I have no idea who decided to research Code of Laws before Construction. Besides, someone wanted to research Civil Service next but i said that we need Catapults first And back to point. Truth is that 2 or 3 clans playing mixed those teamers. Why Bc rank of course. If u look caerfuly always same peps are in top 10-20. Ask Ironclad about hes experience in those teamers about avoiding playing with him bc rank 1 was afraid to lose it. You guys just play your game but dont post topic with name like above "BRAINLESS". Hmm. Say, noone avoided playing with me. Ironclad is a USA player, most of the top are Euro players. The problem is that if you don't play every day, someone else will get ranks and so you'll lose ranks. So, USA players are in a big disadvantage here. This is especially true for Asia and Australia players. And 1 more think. If those TOP 10's dont playing ctons , 1v1 and of course teamers in every era i dont have rescpect for their rank, hope Im not alone. I guess i'm somewhere in top 30, but i'll reply to it anyway. Ctons just aren't fun and competitive. 1v1 is either random (on random maps) or stalemate (on a mirror map, if both players are playing properly) so i don't see the point practicing it. Now, find me some teamers in every era, i'll play some Preferably with some good players in them, of course. True others who get denied probably are those who completely screw up in previous games beyond all rational comprehension (not even remotely avg player). But really a lot of people who aren't of a comparable skill to someone else already in the staging room get denied (cuz balanced teams matters most). I think it's fair enough if some player, say, makes ONE worker in Renaisance teamer for his 5 cities. That's until he was killed by 16 Redcoats. After that, it will be nice if that player will play singleplayer, ctons, non-ladder games or whatever else until he'll learn some Civ 4 basics. Of course, i'll say that we don't need him in a teamer in the next 2 weeks or so. Same with someone who doesn't understand english good enough (i mean, it's ok to make cottages and wineries instead of a road when you're losing your capital but at least you should make a road instead of that crap if you was explicitly told to do so). It's impossible to play teamers with such players.
|
|
|
Post by Ellestar on May 15, 2006 6:58:59 GMT -5
Well, the only solution i see is to make pauses from time to time to be able to talk with new players during the game. Probably it's too hard to them to both manage an empire and listen to advices, plans etc. Of course, it will be boring to wait 2-3 minutes for other players but i don't see any other solution.
Also, we should warn new players before the start of the game that a teamer with 8 ladder veterans is not a ******* joke. Either they want to listen to advices and play as good as they can, play as a team etc. Or, if they don't want to do it, they should find a more relaxed teamer, cton or whatever else better matchs them. There are a lot of players that are playing "just for fun", "to relax", "it's just a game" blah blah blah and so on that don't realize that there are other playing styles as well (say, play to win).
|
|
|
Post by Elledge on May 15, 2006 7:11:32 GMT -5
Lestat I think you're pretty much alone. Nobody said you had to enjoy every kind of game in the books to be a good player.
|
|