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Post by Ellestar on Mar 29, 2006 5:18:52 GMT -5
4)360 degrees of Civ. Seriously, this one is bad. - You start Civ4 playing random tossers in the gallery. A lot of cursing idiots, minimal skills around, quitting and whining rampant. - Then you start playing ladder, good games, noone quitting, Civ lookin great. - Then you get good and start playing teamers with goods. Most of these guys mistake their ranks for their thingyes and long since forgot that their stats are meaningless, this is a game, everyone should have fun. So you are back to where you started, insane levels of whining and excuses. Quitting, even in the pre-game room. Quitting early like general gallery cos they can see likely path whole game will play out on terrain and civs alone, so why bother playing. Quitting early is like 50/50 chance of occurring in teamers, even worse than gallery. Community too small so no accountability. I have seen people quit first turns of 5v5 teamers cos they think they are so good they can make workers on front line and leave when it doesn't pay off without even trying to recover. Game over, 5 reports, everyone plays with em again next game like they didn't just screw 9 people out of a fun game cos they are selfish. Many similiar examples. 20 minute pauses to whine about team selection. 30 minute pauses to fight over skill comparison of subs. Really lame stuff. Haha nice one. It's not an absolute truth, but it's close. Quitting isn't that common though some players do like to do it And some don't plan if they have enough time to finish a game. A big problem with 'chess style' systems is endlessly playing weak players to boost score. At least with cases you have to beat the players at the top to get to the top. It's not a big problem if you don't gain any score at all for winning against an opponent with a significantly lesser score. But it will not work for team games anyway. And it doesn't work good when there aren't enough players. I dont like pre-defined map as inland, whell, ring etc... Peps say that pangea is resoures unbalanced but all maps mentioned above is resorsc balanced or unbalanced like pangea. No, you're wrong. Noone says that (unless they are noobs and don't know different maps). Pangea has a map imbalance. Someone can have twice as much land as his opponent, someone can spawn between a desert and a coast etc. Civ4 is not dying, it's growing very fast as a matter of fact. Despite the problems we have now while waiting for the patch, we have 938 members as of today, and average 500 match per day. Hardly a ladder that is dying. 938? ROFL I don't know where you get that number. Look here: Ladder site -> Standings -> View Ranks. Last page with active players is 201-300, and about half of them are active. So, there are 250 active players in the ladder at that moment. nuts, I program for a living. The data cache bug has got to be about ten lines of code which someone could find in an afternoon, patch, test, and upload for distribution. And for god's sake, put a notice up before the lobby screen that says "You seem to be behind a firewall. Civ 4 needs port 2056 UDP open to establish multiplayer connections. You can visit this site to see how to forward ports on your firewall." It's not like these are content patches or big design issues; these are little bugfixes for major issues. Waiting months for them is inexplicable. Yes. I should have been fired from my work a long time ago if i fixed bugs as "fast" as Firaxis programmers. SP dun do it for me so if ladder died, I would uninstall Civ and grab Oblivion or try Galactic Civ2 or something else. I am lovin it though so hope muchly it don't die. I have both. GalCiv 2 still sucks as is GalCiv. Not many strategic chocies, economy model is imbalanced and is harder to control than MOO3 one (if you want to run it at a good efficiency). Oblivion rocks, definately take that one if you like open RPG concept (or just nice graphics). Believe me the patch is coming, teh delay is only the added over head of Take2, if a english only patch could be released it would have been out ages ago, but Take2 realizes that it has markets world wide, and the patch must be localized and in a professional manner as well, that takes time as well. I wish the patch was out yesterday as well, but it's still better to have a patch with no bugs found especially since this is the last patch before the XP. CS That's why sane developers do make a smaller code patches for critical issues instead of making one huge code+data patch. P.S. Patch isn't a god so we shouldn't "believe"(c)canucksoldier that it will descend to earth sooner or later everything else is just bullcrap from a guy who hardly plays and have no clue - there s just one thing - very few guys play - but I blame more civ4 and the superpoor suport as the ladder for that. I blame ladder more than civ4 for that I don't mean a ladder rules or something like that, but overall state of the ladder is awful (especially compared to other more successful games). Barely 50 active players playing teamers. No REAL clans (like in other games). There are group of friends here and there, yes. But where are clan wars, practice matches, tournaments, competition between clans (don't tell fairy tales about CCC)? Even MMORPG clans are far better and more organized than Civ 4 clans, no need to mention cybersport clans.
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Post by tommynt on Mar 29, 2006 6:57:48 GMT -5
elle we MUD guys are fairly active together and try to do mUD vs as often as possible - just too often others are scared
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Post by tommynt on Mar 29, 2006 6:59:14 GMT -5
elle we MUD guys are fairly active together and try to do mUD vs as often as possible - just too often others are scared (we challenged for example ilus with fried often enough ...)
just cause u arent a active clan player it doesnt mean that others arent aswell
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Post by Magzi on Mar 29, 2006 12:26:36 GMT -5
Wish I could find games easier...it's ok at the weekend but just now...I have given up again. A few open games that was all. Guess I'm the wrong time zone or something!
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Post by willburn on Mar 29, 2006 12:30:28 GMT -5
elle we MUD guys are fairly active together and try to do mUD vs as often as possible - just too often others are scared (we challenged for example ilus with fried often enough ...) just cause u arent a active clan player it doesnt mean that others arent aswell Eh Illuminati would love playing mud 3v3 4v4 etc. Xma and mark and islandia speaker have all asked me several times if i wanted to play with em vs mud but mud never shows up when we are there....
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Post by GERMANIA on Mar 29, 2006 13:17:05 GMT -5
elle we MUD guys are fairly active together and try to do mUD vs as often as possible - just too often others are scared (we challenged for example ilus with fried often enough ...) just cause u aren't a active clan player it doesn't mean that others aren't aswell Eh Illuminati would love playing mud 3v3 4v4 etc. Xma and mark and islandia speaker have all asked me several times if i wanted to play with em vs mud but mud never shows up when we are there.... Well we shouldnt forget one things MUD is a Europe clan and illu are almost all from NA and maybe you know about that we have different time zone But i still played Islandia so so many time and believe me i will also continue in the future if we both have time but i doubt that MUD ore illu decides if the ladder is dying b And it will get all better when the Add on release in the summer
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Post by lporiginalg on Mar 29, 2006 13:41:41 GMT -5
good way to kill a forum is overmoderate it like this. I agree with that. I understand that the admins want to maintain order and civility but there have been cencorship around here which is downright anal imho. This is a game and people are here to have fun after all. It would be nice if there was once section of the board that was totaly unmoderated (other than spam removal) but I think you would find everyone only ends up posting there because people don't want to be censored. I get a good laugh when I see one ladder ripping on another myself, but maybe that's just me. lp
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Post by Avogadro on Mar 29, 2006 13:45:02 GMT -5
There will also be more tournaments offered when the patch comes out, that is if it is stable. At the moment it is a frustrating job to be a tourney director because of the issues involved. Once the game runs smoothly I'm sure there will be more tourneys. We have some experienced directors who have hosted several in the past. Let's keep our fingers crosses regarding the stability of the patch.
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Post by Canucksoldier on Mar 29, 2006 17:20:58 GMT -5
4)360 degrees of Civ. Seriously, this one is bad. - You start Civ4 playing random tossers in the gallery. A lot of cursing idiots, minimal skills around, quitting and whining rampant. - Then you start playing ladder, good games, noone quitting, Civ lookin great. - Then you get good and start playing teamers with goods. Most of these guys mistake their ranks for their thingyes and long since forgot that their stats are meaningless, this is a game, everyone should have fun. So you are back to where you started, insane levels of whining and excuses. Quitting, even in the pre-game room. Quitting early like general gallery cos they can see likely path whole game will play out on terrain and civs alone, so why bother playing. Quitting early is like 50/50 chance of occurring in teamers, even worse than gallery. Community too small so no accountability. I have seen people quit first turns of 5v5 teamers cos they think they are so good they can make workers on front line and leave when it doesn't pay off without even trying to recover. Game over, 5 reports, everyone plays with em again next game like they didn't just screw 9 people out of a fun game cos they are selfish. Many similiar examples. 20 minute pauses to whine about team selection. 30 minute pauses to fight over skill comparison of subs. Really lame stuff. Haha nice one. It's not an absolute truth, but it's close. Quitting isn't that common though some players do like to do it And some don't plan if they have enough time to finish a game. It's not a big problem if you don't gain any score at all for winning against an opponent with a significantly lesser score. But it will not work for team games anyway. And it doesn't work good when there aren't enough players. No, you're wrong. Noone says that (unless they are noobs and don't know different maps). Pangea has a map imbalance. Someone can have twice as much land as his opponent, someone can spawn between a desert and a coast etc. 938? ROFL I don't know where you get that number. Look here: Ladder site -> Standings -> View Ranks. Last page with active players is 201-300, and about half of them are active. So, there are 250 active players in the ladder at that moment. Yes. I should have been fired from my work a long time ago if i fixed bugs as "fast" as Firaxis programmers. I have both. GalCiv 2 still sucks as is GalCiv. Not many strategic chocies, economy model is imbalanced and is harder to control than MOO3 one (if you want to run it at a good efficiency). Oblivion rocks, definately take that one if you like open RPG concept (or just nice graphics). That's why sane developers do make a smaller code patches for critical issues instead of making one huge code+data patch. P.S. Patch isn't a god so we shouldn't "believe"(c)canucksoldier that it will descend to earth sooner or later everything else is just bullcrap from a guy who hardly plays and have no clue - there s just one thing - very few guys play - but I blame more civ4 and the superpoor suport as the ladder for that. I blame ladder more than civ4 for that I don't mean a ladder rules or something like that, but overall state of the ladder is awful (especially compared to other more successful games). Barely 50 active players playing teamers. No REAL clans (like in other games). There are group of friends here and there, yes. But where are clan wars, practice matches, tournaments, competition between clans (don't tell fairy tales about CCC)? Even MMORPG clans are far better and more organized than Civ 4 clans, no need to mention cybersport clans. I'd love to see the ladder expand even more. But would you like to tell me specifically how we are mismanaging the ladder? MP is suffering in general due to the connection issues, that is not something I can do anything about atm. I'm in the lobby every night promoting C4P, and I process all invites within 24hrs. But if you have idea's on how to make the ladder better please post them and not just criticism. The ladder does not manage clans, they are free assiociations of players that we simply provide a monthly competition for. We tried a Clan ladder on C3P once but the clans did not support it enough for it to survive, I'd be willing to try this again in C4P if the clans told me that there's support for it. As to my ladder numbers they are taken of the data that Cases provides to the Admins, there are in fact 938 registered members on the ladder, that is a fact, not all have won a game yet, so not all of them will show up on a "all players" standings display ladder page, so a search on "unranked" as well. Mark Twain once said that "There are 3 types of lies, lies, dam lies, and statistics", ergo we can twist statistics to say pretty much what we want. But my point was that we have lots of active players, otherwise how do we get 500 matches reported every day? I'd love to have this number grow significantly ofcourse, but remember that Civ4 is a brand new game, it's less than 6 months old, and believe me Play the World was much worse of at the 6 month mark than we are right now. And it's not just the admins and TD's job to promote the ladder, it's every ladder members job to do that as well, remember that you have a vested interest in the ladder succeeding and growing as well, it's your fun games that will benifit in the long run. So this is your chance to advertise C4P in the lobby just as I do. Remember as well that this is the only MP TBS game in it's genre, it's not a MMORPH, it's not a FPS game nor a RTS game. So you can make comparisons but what is right or good for the Civ4 MP community may not be what you see in other genre's, it's upto the players of this ladder to forge it's future not the admin team, we are just here to provide the framework to build the future on. If you don't like what you see then come with solutions and not just identifying the problems. CS
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Post by notagoodname on Mar 29, 2006 17:35:06 GMT -5
As to wither or not the ladder is dying, surprisingly with all the problems we have faced, I would say it is expanding not dying. Finding it easier and easier to find games every day. When CIV first started it would take me about an hour and a half before I could find a game. Now it only takes me about 10 mins. Like the original author of this thread I live in Australia, there are probably around 5 active ladder players I know who live in this time zone so there arn't really any games going in my weekday evenings after work (If you north americans/europeans log on in your [very] late evenings/early mornings you can laugh at me trying desperatly to challenge anyone in the lobby to a 1v1). When this game was released and after the first patch was out i never had any such trouble. To the admins: I think you are doing a great job btw and my difficulties getting a game isn't your fault at all. As i said it's Civ4 that has the problems; and this ladder helps to work around them.
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Post by tommynt on Mar 29, 2006 19:28:38 GMT -5
CS - we live in 2006 - a 6 month old game is old and nothing else some1 who hasnt started playing it yet wont never start espacilly as it s not that a big hit - real breaking hits like halflife (and hl2) warcraft3 (and now wow) diabolo may attrackt people that late time after relase but not a bit above avarage game like civ4 - many games have after half year aallready a 2nd part going out.
And i m not sure - but maybe this suppercrapy costumer support gets known in public a bit and discourage new byuers - they did this nonsupport it in civ3 allready now in civ4 - I should have known
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Post by Ellestar on Mar 30, 2006 5:40:17 GMT -5
elle we MUD guys are fairly active together and try to do mUD vs as often as possible - just too often others are scared (we challenged for example ilus with fried often enough ...) just cause u arent a active clan player it doesnt mean that others arent aswell First, DO NOT CALL ME "ELLE". I REPEATED IT MANY, MANY TIMES. I saw only MUD vs PUG. PUG is not a clan, it's a Pick Up Group. Any self-respected clans in other games beat PUG's with closed eyes I never even heard about a clan wars in Civ 4. Correction: I'm not a clan player at all and i never was in a Civ 4 clan. Eh Illuminati would love playing mud 3v3 4v4 etc. Xma and mark and islandia speaker have all asked me several times if i wanted to play with em vs mud but mud never shows up when we are there.... That's exactly why a practice clan war, friendly clan match or a clan war is an arranged event. Say, in cybersport clans there is a clan member that is responsible for arranging these events for his clan (mostly practice clan wars because it's a common way of training for team games and so clan plays them several times per week). I blame ladder more than civ4 for that I don't mean a ladder rules or something like that, but overall state of the ladder is awful (especially compared to other more successful games). I'd love to see the ladder expand even more. But would you like to tell me specifically how we are mismanaging the ladder? Actually i wanted to say by it that you don't mismanage a ladder. I just didn't find the right words (don't forget that i'm not a native english speaker so sometimes it's hard to express complicated matters). But if you have idea's on how to make the ladder better please post them and not just criticism. If i'll have any ideas i'll say. Mark Twain once said that "There are 3 types of lies, lies, dam lies, and statistics", ergo we can twist statistics to say pretty much what we want. But my point was that we have lots of active players, otherwise how do we get 500 matches reported every day? And we do have 250 active players I think you'll agree that my way of counting an active players is closer to the truth. A number of inactive player doesn't mean much, and counting players who never even won a match is pointless as well (i guess most of them are inactive anyway).
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Post by salqadri on Mar 30, 2006 6:36:00 GMT -5
I've been trying hard to force Firaxis to release the patches more frequently. I've taken some quotes from you guys; hopefully they will realize that they need to provide more support and release the patches much more frequently.
Edit: Inappropriate comment removed; sorry to those that were offended.
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Post by Elledge on Mar 30, 2006 10:50:01 GMT -5
elle we MUD guys are fairly active together and try to do mUD vs as often as possible - just too often others are scared (we challenged for example ilus with fried often enough ...) just cause u arent a active clan player it doesnt mean that others arent aswell First, DO NOT CALL ME "ELLE". I REPEATED IT MANY, MANY TIMES. ^-------- I agree with this post
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Post by NicodaMax on Mar 30, 2006 11:56:46 GMT -5
First post in god knows how long... A LONG time ago I told myself to take some time off ladder play until connection issues were fixed by the upcoming patch. I'm still waiting... I'm convinced its not the Ladder's fault, nor is it Firaxi's fault or the ranking system, or its members. Well that just leaves one subject, doesn't it? C'mon Take2, please fet your Sh*t together, I beg of you
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Post by Sidhe on Mar 30, 2006 13:38:19 GMT -5
There should be a lesson here, there should have been a quick patch to clear up some of the minor bugs. Say 1.52b, I'm not that bothered about connection issues, I seem to have few problems when I play because I've followed all the connection issue advice and sorted it.
I probably wont play untill the exploits are fixed, there are a few more than people are probably aware of and I don't trust people not to use them. The banned civics because of exploits have stripped alot of fun from teamers too.
I definitely think the admins are free of blame but then I don't see the OP as an attack on the admins more as attack on the frustration of having to wait for so damn long.
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Post by tommynt on Mar 30, 2006 14:09:39 GMT -5
found another bug .. in occ a ai takeover can build more cities ...
zhis game is just tooo full of this nuts ...
oh ya and just meet 1. cheater in civ4 .. but thats another thread
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Post by Elledge on Mar 30, 2006 14:26:00 GMT -5
If you know some odd exploits beyond the usual civic bugs etc., then you should probably speak up and make them public, so that anyone will know if they're getting used.
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Post by Ellestar on Mar 31, 2006 1:01:02 GMT -5
found another bug .. in occ a ai takeover can build more cities ... zhis game is just tooo full of this nuts ... oh ya and just meet 1. cheater in civ4 .. but thats another thread It's not a bug. OCC was made for singleplayer One City Challenges. AI should play in a normal way in OCC and so it does, he can build more than one city.
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arma
Settler
Posts: 20
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Post by arma on Mar 31, 2006 1:21:24 GMT -5
The problem is a player leaves OCC and then AI starts spreading, then another player takes over a civ in a OCC game with multiple cities and game over everybody. Happened to my games several times over last month.
EDIT: That is, game over due to lockup, not advantage.
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