|
Post by metallian on Jan 4, 2008 6:29:50 GMT -5
Can someone fix flanking, as bad as Spies are flanking is 10x worse. We just need to elimate it from horse units all together and we should have a playable game. The Civ combat system doesn't allow something that is flanking, the only way you could have flanking is if somehow the attacker can setup their unit stack in some type of unit formation to prevent this. The double flanking horse archer is the ultimate defender when combined with city defense longbows. We all know that this wasn't properly tested so can please get it patched. Also please tell why cannons/artillery can't kill units?? The cannon/artillery has caused 100x more damage to infantry units on field of battle than a Cav or Tank. I am convinced the developers don't play the game at all, they just make knee jerk changes and f**k up the game horribly. The siege units didn't need to be nerfed into oblivion. Give me back my Warlords game with the catapult increase cost, hell even give me back the Vanilla Game where seige unit got collateraled, anything but flanking please. The only unit that was overpowered in warlords was the catapult but that was only because morons couldn't figure out that anti seige would be a good promo if the player was brining in 20 cats and 5 different units, the cannon/treb/artillery units were not overpowered.
|
|
nicoya1
Warrior
Tourney Director
C4PTD
Posts: 253
|
Post by nicoya1 on Jan 4, 2008 20:57:55 GMT -5
thats something i dont understand why cannons , artillery, and moble artillery should be able to kill units.
|
|
|
Post by atlas on Jan 6, 2008 10:56:37 GMT -5
In BtS catapults suffered 5 different nerfs
1. Cost Increase 2. Anti-Siege Promo at combat 1, not 2 3. No longer lethal 4. Flanking attacks by mounted units 5. No more "reassigning" of collateral damage
I believe that the first 2 items (cost increase and promotion modification) were sufficient to bring catapults and other siege more in line. I think we can all agree that the catapult building contests of Warlords 2.08 were rather silly, but now we have moved in the other direction.
There will be another BtS patch, but I do not believe it will address this issue.
|
|
|
Post by Canucksoldier on Jan 6, 2008 19:43:01 GMT -5
Yes it is very unlikely that the next patch will make any game play changes, so it will be up to us to create a mod that puts Artillery units were we want them for game balance.
CS
|
|
|
Post by MookieNJ on Jan 6, 2008 21:05:14 GMT -5
Flanking Catapults is the most slowed thing I have ever seen. 10 Horse Archers destroy 7/8 of my Catapults? Come on. Now you can't even bring siege units up to cities any more without them getting completely destroyed. No point in even building them really. It didn't take good players long to build mostly Horse Archers and completely eliminate the viability of Catapults.
Catapults are now only a unit that can be used by a defender and are unusable for the attacker. That is not a balanced unit.
|
|
|
Post by zzZhenon on Jan 7, 2008 3:53:07 GMT -5
In BtS catapults suffered 5 different nerfs 1. Cost Increase 2. Anti-Siege Promo at combat 1, not 2 3. No longer lethal 4. Flanking attacks by mounted units 5. No more "reassigning" of collateral damage I believe that the first 2 items (cost increase and promotion modification) were sufficient to bring catapults and other siege more in line. I think we can all agree that the catapult building contests of Warlords 2.08 were rather silly, but now we have moved in the other direction. There will be another BtS patch, but I do not believe it will address this issue. I agree and it's a shame it won't be fixed
|
|
|
Post by longhorn on Jan 7, 2008 12:13:16 GMT -5
I think the developers got catapults right! I think flanking is a great addition to the game.
|
|
|
Post by MMV on Jan 7, 2008 16:13:28 GMT -5
flanking - it's what horse units do.
fast, mobile, moving around the enemy positions and attacking from the side and rear of the front line (flanking)
what's UNrealistic in Civ is how cats have been played.
|
|
redphoenix
Warrior
CCCAC Representative
Posts: 253
|
Post by redphoenix on Jan 7, 2008 16:58:32 GMT -5
flanking - it's what horse units do. fast, mobile, moving around the enemy positions and attacking from the side and rear of the front line (flanking) what's UNrealistic in Civ is how cats have been played. wether we have flanking or not is not the issue, whole collateral damage is silly. Flanking wouldnt be a problem if you didnt first bomb the defending units down so cavalry will destroy all catapults. Which is silly, flanking isn't this effective in real warfare... Nor is collateral. Atleast not in this way, and both sides get to fire at the same time anyhow...
|
|
|
Post by TheBadSeed on Jan 7, 2008 17:08:09 GMT -5
Flanking is silly. The only way to prevent it at this point is to stack elephants with your catapult stack, and even then, you need to have as many elephants with your stack as the flankers have horse archers. Spears arent effective as protection, since horse archers have relatively good odds against them, and it only takes 2-3 horse archers getting past the spears to flank a stack of 12 cats. A few ways to solve this:
1. Reduce collateral damage to 1/2 its current level
2. Limit the collateral damage from flanking to 1 unit per horse unit. Its just stupid that a horse archer can travel 2-3 tiles, have a battle, defeat spear, and have time to damage 6 different catapult units, and in some cases, still be able to retreat afterword. They aren't that fast. If it was made so 1 ha could flank only 1 catapult, it would make it much more fair.
3. Have formation available as a first upgrade for spear units. That would make spears a viable protection for catapult stacks, as it would greatly reduce the odds of horse archer vs. spear.
|
|
|
Post by zzZhenon on Jan 8, 2008 4:02:39 GMT -5
flanking is fine, but it shouldn't kill. that way you can at least bomb the city down. also, like atlas said, they were OVERnerfed in more than 5 ways. No one's arguing they didn't need some nerfing... just not as much as they got.
|
|
|
Post by cryptococcus on Jan 8, 2008 4:31:55 GMT -5
I think the developers got catapults right! I think flanking is a great addition to the game. Longhorn is the original NwbDwg!
|
|