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Post by pnity on Jul 20, 2007 3:18:26 GMT -5
photo.xuite.net/yukiso/1866631/1.jpgCata (or other siege weapon) can't kill any unit now. They have a Max damage limit and immune collateral damage, too. And One Mount unit can do collateral damage on siege weapon. Does it mean Cata sea won't exist again?
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Post by Canucksoldier on Jul 20, 2007 4:26:52 GMT -5
photo.xuite.net/yukiso/1866631/1.jpgCata (or other siege weapon) can't kill any unit now. They have a Max damage limit and immune collateral damage, too. And One Mount unit can do collateral damage on siege weapon. Does it mean Cata sea won't exist again? No but it means that cats aren't the one size fits all unit any more, still useful but not overpowered. I am interested in knowing what everyone think about cats...are they good now, or did Firaxis go to far? I don't want to influence peoples opinions with mine, but I do want to know the general feeling after everyone has played this for awhile. CS
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Post by 9iron9 on Jul 20, 2007 5:56:19 GMT -5
i did a test on catas, i had about 40 against ai, i stacked em and splatted a city but after a certain ammount they just withdrew.
lb in the city were reduced to 1.5 and stopped there. just means you got to have a load of killing units too now, at least the ammount in the city if u wanna kill it one turn.
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Post by MMV on Jul 20, 2007 16:09:50 GMT -5
TOOOO Fa'Reaking Funny, lol -
WHO would have guessed this -
"OMG - they nerfed cats too much!"
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Post by zzZhenon on Jul 20, 2007 20:12:56 GMT -5
The 6 Nerfs to Catapults:
1. Cost increase 2. Flank Attacks 3. Can no longer kill 4. Capped collateral damage 5. Charge Promotion only requires Combat I 6. Walls and Castles reduce bombardment percentage
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Post by pnity on Jul 20, 2007 23:59:44 GMT -5
deleted
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redphoenix
Warrior
CCCAC Representative
Posts: 253
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Post by redphoenix on Jul 21, 2007 15:06:48 GMT -5
imo cata is still too good, they should make it weaker on def too.
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Post by pnity on Jul 21, 2007 20:17:23 GMT -5
imo cata is still too good, they should make it weaker on def too. don't think so. Players,who don't have milliary resoucre, only can make cata and archer to defend. Nerfing cata is unfair for them.
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Post by Atomation on Jul 22, 2007 2:06:35 GMT -5
Cata's seem pretty much perfect right now imo. Will take some more playing to see. I like that swordsman really has emerged as a unit of use. The only problem I really see is that it's very difficult to get very far in enemy territory, perhaps even more difficult than before, just because having a stack of almost all catapults before was defense against collateral while now you need a very diverse stack. A diverse stack will be collateraled and destroyed far too easily....
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Post by pnity on Jul 22, 2007 5:51:19 GMT -5
A diverse stack will be collateraled and destroyed far too easily.... Yes, it is pain for attacker. Many archers defend in city, and go tech cata. You may kick back attackers even if you don't have horse,iron,copper. It means attackers need more units to kill any player than Warlord's.
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redphoenix
Warrior
CCCAC Representative
Posts: 253
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Post by redphoenix on Jul 22, 2007 8:59:24 GMT -5
Cata's seem pretty much perfect right now imo. Will take some more playing to see. I like that swordsman really has emerged as a unit of use. The only problem I really see is that it's very difficult to get very far in enemy territory, perhaps even more difficult than before, just because having a stack of almost all catapults before was defense against collateral while now you need a very diverse stack. A diverse stack will be collateraled and destroyed far too easily.... That is what I ment its too good on def. Simply collateral damage it does is too good, cata should be more expensive, by a lot. Or reduce effect of collateral on regular units in open ground.
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Post by Earl Harewood on Jul 22, 2007 10:02:13 GMT -5
The attacker has a lot more at his disposal now with the introduction of spies in the early game. Use spies to cut resources and roads, sabotage production in cities and incite revolts to bring down defensive bonues, poison water/foment unhappiness to cripple production in a city that might be building a wonder or something really important. You can steal from their treasury to pump more money into espionage if they are foolish enough to let their wealth lay about in their treasury rather than be put to use. BTS has blown the whole game up again to what was intended with civ4 in the first place, a true strategy game, not a complicated puzzle.
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Arvcran
Worker
Tourney Director
Remember the purpose of CIV / BtS is enjoyment, entertainment, and hobby!
Posts: 181
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Post by Arvcran on Jul 29, 2007 12:42:32 GMT -5
imo cata is still too good, they should make it weaker on def too. I agree.
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Post by venceslas on Jul 29, 2007 14:06:34 GMT -5
The main point is cata has been only nerfed for the players which attak in my view.
chris.
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Post by deviousdevil on Jul 29, 2007 20:02:11 GMT -5
Cata's seem pretty much perfect right now imo. Will take some more playing to see. I like that swordsman really has emerged as a unit of use. The only problem I really see is that it's very difficult to get very far in enemy territory, perhaps even more difficult than before, just because having a stack of almost all catapults before was defense against collateral while now you need a very diverse stack. A diverse stack will be collateraled and destroyed far too easily.... If MLL is happy, then it must be okay. I agree btw, the seige weapons are still vital and useful, just aren't a replacement for other units which should be present. Artillery for example still are wonderful, wonderful units and cannon too. This shows just how good they are anyway never mind being able to kill! I have had a few ideas on "training" catapults actually as they can't kill units...
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grilla
Worker
CCCAC Representative
Have a banana!
Posts: 165
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Post by grilla on Jul 30, 2007 8:23:56 GMT -5
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Post by deviousdevil on Jul 30, 2007 12:21:42 GMT -5
besides, DD got his paratroopers! So he's a happy man! The range is an issue...should be at least 7 tiles. Otherwise they are pretty cool.
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Post by knupp on Jul 30, 2007 16:12:38 GMT -5
My opinion:
Siege weapons were not overpowered. Catapults were. MP beta testers (and some SP beta testers) posted countless times explaining that in order to fix catapults, all the developers needed to do was simply increase the cost of them.
Instead of listening to us, they decided they would completely revamp all siege weapons. Why? I'm not really sure.
My best guess is that they'd rather recreate the game the way they wanted it to be (the BTS developers were not the same as the original Civ4 developers).
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Post by deviousdevil on Jul 30, 2007 17:30:31 GMT -5
My opinion: Siege weapons were not overpowered. Catapults were. MP beta testers (and some SP beta testers) posted countless times explaining that in order to fix catapults, all the developers needed to do was simply increase the cost of them. Instead of listening to us, they decided they would completely revamp all siege weapons. Why? I'm not really sure. My best guess is that they'd rather recreate the game the way they wanted it to be (the BTS developers were not the same as the original Civ4 developers). Artillery and cannon still own.
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Post by knupp on Aug 1, 2007 15:37:26 GMT -5
Artillery and cannons are a lot weaker than the other units of their age. Thus, the key is to kill them in the open before they can attack your city or stack.
Catapults are the same strength as a lot of units of that age, thus making it a lot more difficult to kill them in the open.
That was why they were overpowered. Now.. well they are just completely different.
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