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Post by Death to ALL on Jun 3, 2007 15:57:52 GMT -5
This thread is to make suggestions on changes for the next Nation's Cup, which is scheduled for July13th-15th. Everything is on the table except the date.
A couple of points to help give some direction:
Number of Events.
What events settings worked and what didn't
How should teams be formed, alliances/regional teams.
Multiple teams from one nation.
And anything else you guys can come up with.
The staff and myself will then review everything here and make appropriate changes to how we run the next NC.
Thanks
DTA
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Post by TheClash on Jun 3, 2007 16:58:43 GMT -5
Might look the starting times of the events. Wasnt so good this time.
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Post by Canucksoldier on Jun 3, 2007 17:24:27 GMT -5
In response to some of the comments in multiple threads this NC. In my opinion the NC is not the "Olympics of Civ". Why? Simply because National teams are not practising daily like clans do. IMHO, the CCC is the Olympics if any event is. That is not to say that the NC can't be just as competitive as the CCC, but I don't think we should be putting any of the Olympic style quality control mechanisms into the NC. National/Regional teams should be free to recruit members from there region however they see fit and enter there team, regardless if they are not as technically competitive as some other teams.
Also IMO, this means that we should likely let large nations put more than one team in, if for no other reason than to not remove players from being able to play just because there is a limit to a roster size per team. And to have more teams involved is always good for competition.
But we will take everyone's opinion into account on these issues and all others.
CS
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Post by penny on Jun 3, 2007 18:51:28 GMT -5
Here you go : Multiple Teams/Team set upMy point of view is that we have 2 types of countries : - Countries not able to fill all 14 events - Countries able to. IMO, we should separate those 2 kinds : "Biggest" countries (That is, ATM, Only USA and France) should have the possibility to have more than 1 team. One of the team could be the dream team (or not) this is totally natural, as long as the team remains accessible to all, that is, by the mean of try-out, or US ladder Ranking, or National ladder ranking. This is to be decided by the captain anyway, the point just being to mix up clans within the team. This is what France have been doing (MDR,LKT,FUN,OS,PAF,SD2R players were playing, Would have been 7 clans if Mage would have applied/and had the time do so.) This is what Mookie is trying to set up : civ4players.proboards44.com/index.cgi?board=nc&action=display&thread=1178580297&page=2As for others, Just gathering people from region is fine; The point being just to Fill in the 14 events. I.E, I believe Commonwealth was good, since we filled about 10 of the 14 events. Also, Providing a forum structure to new/smaller country would greatly help them. About Events I played Event 1, So I'm just gonna stick with that : First Round 2v2 was great. Secound Round 2v2v2v2 Ancient was too quiet. WAY too quiet. Make me a TBG 4 corners which actually has DESERT instead of water, and I'll play it again (or pick a more appropriate map) (Also that Final was incredibly long...6H I believe, make it blazing) EDIT: Event suggestionWould be good to have an event where the team HAS to pick a leader from his original country. Whatever the event, that would be fun
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Juni
Worker
Posts: 137
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Post by Juni on Jun 3, 2007 19:49:44 GMT -5
My experience about events I played : - Maze is probably the worst map for OCC. The idea of boat fight is interesting, but a coastal city is a very bad OCC city
- Future on Wheel is great, but please NOT TOROIDAL. I think the way we won it shows it well : 2 games, 15 minutes each...
- I love the idea of an exhibition event, especially on a funny mod like UU Madness. I just regret that the map had first been set to standard size that was really too large and allowed very few fight. 3v3 on TBG small is perfect.
- Medieval 3v3 on Mirror is great, there are opportunities for galley fight or even sometimes land fight, so it's not as boring as I expected. Very good event. And very good victory from CSA with an awesome galleons rush. Great job guys
And two general ideas about settings : - I'm happy that you tried to change from settings used in CCC. It caused some weird events, but it's a consequence of such experiments, so it's not a problem, I'm sure you can improve it next time
- HB maps are OCC and later eras maps, nothing else. I think you used it too much.
@ Penny : rofl, your idea of picking a leader from our own country is funny. What about a real world map for this event ? Aware me if this event is created, I will first request turkish nationality ;D
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Post by venceslas on Jun 4, 2007 1:26:25 GMT -5
My experience:
2v2v2v2 four corner ancien: it's almost a no-attack event. If you attack early, both team will lose. I d'ont say that is an unskilled event, Penny and Devious has won because they was the best. However a 6 hours game without attack is really annoying.
Medieval large continent: At first I was thinking it was an annoying event also. In the fact it was quite interesting. Moreover CSA has found an amazing tech path. I feel impatient to rematch with them.
Grand melee: It's fun, but sooner or later people will complain about players from the same team which help each other.
chris.
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ot4e
Settler
Posts: 98
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Post by ot4e on Jun 4, 2007 1:56:59 GMT -5
The problem is that most of nation teams are too small, too small to fill so big number of the events. I think the only way to rise the number of competitions is adding some more 1x1, ctons or occ, but not 3x3 events. 3x3 teamers require much more practice and preparations than solo-events. I also agree with the most that HB-script is not demanded so much as you use it.
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Post by toratoratora on Jun 4, 2007 6:10:15 GMT -5
1: The Start times Were lets say Too Team USA Friendly 2: Too many Events for The Smaller Nations! 3: Perhaps Half the number of Events for the next one in doing so also limit Team sizes to say 15 instead of the current 25 this way more teams may be able to Compete without Merging any Nations 4: OCC on anything other than TBG is bad for youre Health IMO! 5: as Mods seem to be the Flavour of the day lets do the CTON on a Earth final version map? 6: Ban UQC from all OCC games Just because I dont like it
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Post by deyreepher on Jun 4, 2007 7:32:15 GMT -5
1: The Start times Were lets say Too Team USA Friendly 2: Too many Events for The Smaller Nations! 3: Perhaps Half the number of Events for the next one in doing so also limit Team sizes to say 15 instead of the current 25 this way more teams may be able to Compete without Merging any Nations 4: OCC on anything other than TBG is bad for youre Health IMO! 5: as Mods seem to be the Flavour of the day lets do the CTON on a Earth final version map? 6: Ban UQC from all OCC games Just because I dont like it 1. Um, only friendly for the East Coast US players. 8 am for US East Coast is 5 am for West Coast. 2. Well, too many events, that concern was voiced over and over again. I don't think anybody is really listening. 3. This ties into concern #2. The French clans were able to roll with about 13 players a piece and did very well. CSA had a nearly maxed out roster. Had we been able to roll with the original NATO roster, we probably would have done just as well, if not better. Sure we had a huge roster with CSA, but not too many players showed up. We had to give up 2 events, the 1v1 and the Sunday 3v3 ancient, due to no shows. Egalitarianism is nice in theory, but in a competitive environment, it's all about being able to count on your teammates. 4. The map settings for over half the events were just ridiculous. 5. No opinion on the mods. 6. Well, this is a mod. I have no opinion on this. Well, I think it's pretty noob.
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Post by MookieNJ on Jun 4, 2007 11:01:21 GMT -5
Yeah, that 5am 1v1 start time was *really* friendly for North America (let's not forget Canada and your team, Bantams).
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Post by charliebrownparker on Jun 4, 2007 12:09:48 GMT -5
Imo July 13th 15th is too early. With a major tournament every 3 weeks we will get an overdose Nation cup should stand twice a year like Summer and Winter civ4 olympic games. I agree people who complains about huge quantity of events. Less event but more teams please. We had so much "bye" last WE. That unbalance scoring and nations standing.
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Post by deyreepher on Jun 4, 2007 12:28:02 GMT -5
Imo July 13th 15th is too early. With a major tournament every 3 weeks we will get an overdose Nation cup should stand twice a year like Summer and Winter civ4 olympic games. I agree people who complains about huge quantity of events. Less event but more teams please. We had so much "bye" last WE. That unbalance scoring and nations standing. I agree with your assessment.
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Post by knupp on Jun 4, 2007 13:46:37 GMT -5
1. Needs to be less events so the smaller nations can compete.
2. Rules need to be defined clearly about teams. How many teams can a nation have? Are countries allowed to form alliances? If so how many countries are allowed in an alliance?
3. Echoing some other people: HB ruins early era games. What's the strategy if your opponent has everything you have? Just build..one dimensional. HB should be used on following game types: OCC, Modern, Future.
4. I think nations cup should be 4 times a year. Any more and its overkill, less people will participate.
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Post by MookieNJ on Jun 4, 2007 13:52:58 GMT -5
The Good: * OCC 3v3 -- While I personally am not a fan of OCC, a lot of people really seem to like this event as we had a lot of players eager to participate here. * Industrial 3v3 -- I was skeptical at first, but the start anywhere TBG settings worked well for this event. Industrial has enough unit and civic options to allow a player to hold out on his own if he starts surrounded by players on the other team. This setting also leads to a lot of action, which is always fun. * Grand Melee -- *If* this continues to be more of a fun tournament for everyone to participate in, then I think this is a great event. Everyone has a chance to play and score points for their team. No worries about trying to field the strongest team or leave anyone out, just good old fashioned Civ fun. * Medieval 3v3 -- This can be a fun setting that I have practiced many times. Nice to see a game variation from the standard that actually made sense . The Bad: * 2v2v2v2 Matches -- Unless you have a multiple of 4 teams participating in all events, these just won't work correctly. An interesting idea, but I don't think they will ever work how we would like them to. * HB Classical And Ancient -- HB Hub and Inland Sea for Classical and Ancient? Did anyone review these settings or were they just picked from a hat? I understand the desire for variety, but these are obviously awful maps for these events. In addition, there is absolutely no need to be using HB for Ancient and Classical. * 3v3 Future -- Toroidal Wrap? Ouch. When nearly every city is a target, a lot of the time he who boats first wins. And Space Race on? Did we already forget the lesson we learned about the Space Race? * Always Peace -- Seriously? Am I so out of the loop that this is the latest fad, or what? * 2v2 Modern -- One of the few events that actually needs the HB map script to balance the late era resources and it's played without it. Doesn't make very much sense to me. A Few More Suggestions: * How about an OCC Grand Melee in addition to the regular Grand Melee? Like I said, I don't really care for it, but it seems like a lot of people do and I'm sure this would be a very popular event. * The Mirror Continents setting would also be fun for Renaissance if we're looking to change things up next time around. Then Medieval could be played on a different (non-HB) map. * Mods -- please don't force them on us in big tournaments like this. If they become popular in regular games, then by all means include them in the NC and CCC. Competitive tournaments are the wrong place to try to introduce them.
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Post by MookieNJ on Jun 4, 2007 13:55:22 GMT -5
3. Echoing some other people: HB ruins early era games. What's the strategy if your opponent has everything you have? Just build..one dimensional. HB should be used on following game types: OCC, Modern, Future. I think HB worked out really well for Industrial too. Granting everyone access to Coal, Oil, and Uranium in a game where they can actually be useful is good. Sounds good. Between every other CCC would work out to every 12 weeks, which is just about 4 times a year.
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Post by deviousdevil on Jun 4, 2007 15:38:14 GMT -5
* Always Peace -- Seriously? Am I so out of the loop that this is the latest fad, or what? Always peace owns, every event should now be always peace ;D
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nicoya1
Warrior
Tourney Director
C4PTD
Posts: 253
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Post by nicoya1 on Jun 4, 2007 21:40:38 GMT -5
As 1 of the ppl who came up with ideas for the NC, my thinking was just trying diff things out that weren't being used during the CCC's. As for the 2v2v2v2 unfortunately this event depended on my countries participating and a smaller map. as for the game on hub i wanted to make it a packed hub teamer, but i was shot down on this idea. as for the other things dint exactly remember how they came to be
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nicoya1
Warrior
Tourney Director
C4PTD
Posts: 253
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Post by nicoya1 on Jun 4, 2007 21:45:33 GMT -5
almost forgot the occ on maze . the map was my idea. my thinking was it was a regular 3 v 3 not an occ 3v3. guess it was an oversight on my part, but again my thinking was ive played a couple of Ren teamers on this map and the tech path and game was something that fun and interesting
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nicoya1
Warrior
Tourney Director
C4PTD
Posts: 253
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Post by nicoya1 on Jun 4, 2007 23:04:36 GMT -5
1: The Start times Were lets say Too Team USA Friendly i though the times were quiet fair to every1. yes the Fridays i think are advantages to the us. but those early morning games are killer on the us players. at least i know for me since i td all the event from 4 to 7 i think. frankly when those times for the Fri to sat games i thought had advantages for every1 around the wold at diff times. the over night games are good for Aussies i think. those Friday games give the us a good time and the early sat game gave the euros and advantage
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Post by MookieNJ on Jun 4, 2007 23:30:41 GMT -5
As 1 of the ppl who came up with ideas for the NC, my thinking was just trying diff things out that weren't being used during the CCC's. Different ideas that aren't used during the CCC are fine, but at least make sure they are playable and fun rather than a seemingly random combination of Era and Map.
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