|
NATO
Jun 1, 2007 10:25:50 GMT -5
Post by popsursocks on Jun 1, 2007 10:25:50 GMT -5
I guess my problem is that why cant you just put a winning team together for your team of nationality since its the Nations Cup. It just seems that all your arguments and rationalities are really just a cheap justification for you to be playing with the same old same old and not in the spirit of this event.
|
|
|
NATO
Jun 1, 2007 11:14:13 GMT -5
Post by deyreepher on Jun 1, 2007 11:14:13 GMT -5
I guess my problem is that why cant you just put a winning team together for your team of nationality since its the Nations Cup. It just seems that all your arguments are rationalities are really just a cheap justification for you to be playing with the same old same old and not in the spirit of this event. Putting together a winning team and playing all takers for a team and winning are two different things. EmperorPenguin was the captain of Team America, I am not going to ask him to stand aside. It's his baby, he can do whatever he wants with that team. Basically, what it comes down to is, us, American players screwed this NCT up as a whole. While the French and Russian teams were practicing, the rest of us were getting our rocks off in Random/Shuffle teamers. I'm sorry, if I'm sounding a bit competitive, but I don't see why we should go into a situation where the odds are stacked against us heavily. I don't believe you're on a team, if you're not, why don't you ask to join CSA for the NCT? I haven't said no to anyone yet. Also, EmperorPenguin created Team USA, he's the captain, it's his show to run. How crass would it be for me to wrest control away from him? The way I see it, the most polite thing to do, in order to participate and succeed, was to break off and go with a team I know can do well. For the next NCT, I'll try to make sure things don't go so poorly for the American players, but unfortunately, life issues got in the way for me doing anything substantial and not last minute.
|
|
|
NATO
Jun 1, 2007 12:09:42 GMT -5
Post by popsursocks on Jun 1, 2007 12:09:42 GMT -5
Well regardless of your reasons for forming this team, im glad to see you back with Team USA, which has somehow become CSA
|
|
|
NATO
Jun 1, 2007 12:19:48 GMT -5
Post by tamijo on Jun 1, 2007 12:19:48 GMT -5
Initiative in it self is great, but you might have expected this. Some countries are to big others too small for this, especialy with the huge amount off events. Would be more fun to ask for any team off 6-8 players NO 2 CLAN-MEMBERS ALLOWED. That would make up some fun teams tournament directors, listen to this: It is very competiative people that play in this ladder ! Have to keep that in mind no matter what event you make. They will allways try to tweak the rules into something they can win, so allways make rules VERY clear. The opposite is infact the case here, rules couldent be more unclear. To be honest, I did not expect this. I have not really been a victim of RaY bashing, which is what most of this was. Usually it is directed towards the more prominent members of RaY, such as Metallian, Speaker, Knupp, Gogf, Mookie, theWiz. I've heard talk about it, but that's my first real experience with it. As I've said, I provided ample precedences that were followed through for this NCT by other teams, before I proceeded with NATO. I'm assuming that you're saying that no clan that participates in the CCC should be able to just cut and paste their roster into the NCT. Unfortunately, you'd be disappointing the RUS clan, their line-up is exactly the same as what they had for the last CCC. They are a nation/ethnic based clan/team. A very good one, in my opinion. They haven't been very prominent, but I've been watching them for the past 3 CCCs and they are a solid clan that has interesting strategies, synergy, and they will be a contender to win the CCC if they already haven't trained themselves up to that point. So, perhaps I should take some of the blame for Team USA not being in tip top shape, however, the month of May was one where I had finished school and was in the process of a big move and I was extremely busy. That mistake won't be made again for the next NCT as I'll hopefully be able to attract some top notch American talent into Team CSA. And on the part about the rules. I'll repeat this again. I followed the PRECEDENCES of other teams for THIS NCT. There is not one action that I did before any other team did first. Let's get that straight. I will emphasize it over and over again. My agument was not directed towards the NATO team, i have no clue if the NATO team is less fair than other teams. My point is that if we need things like this (besides CCC) we need clear rules. Or we will have disputes like this. NB: I still think my idear is great, if the goal is to have events where ladder players come to play/talk with people, that is outside their Clan, or maby not even in a Clan. But im not sure that was the idear here. ?
|
|
|
NATO
Jun 1, 2007 13:06:54 GMT -5
Post by MookieNJ on Jun 1, 2007 13:06:54 GMT -5
The joke is on you.
Team NATO was nothing more than a satirical protest against the way the Nation's Cup has been run thus far. Obviously anti-RaY bias is still alive and well, as evidenced by many of the posts here and the fact that we're seemingly the only ones laughing.
The Nation's Cup could be a great way to foster international competition amongst the players of our great game while at the same time uniting different people and dividing clans in a weekend of fun. It could be the true Olympics of Civ4, bringing out the best and brightest from each country to battle it out for national pride.
Instead, it has been decided that the tournament will be run quite differently than I envisioned it. That's fine, as I'm not an Administrator and I have no power over how things are done. What do I think needs fixing?
* Call me an Elitist or a Thug, but if you want an Olympics of Civ, some people need to be left out. Sorry, but if you're not good enough to play on the Olympic Basketball team, you can't sign up and force your way into the game. It isn't Little League where everyone gets to play 3 innings and gets a trophy at the end.
* Game settings? I'm not asking for a clone of the CCC here, but from the looks of things there wasn't much thought put into the way the events were set up. Random maps joined with random eras and HB for all. Sorry, but a lot of the games just weren't very well thought out.
* Multiple teams from the same country? Pretty silly in my opinion.
* Coalition teams? If a country truly cannot field a team due to a limited number of members, I can understand why it's a good thing to let nations ally. However, there are some pretty big countries forming alliances here. Sorry to be an elitist yet again, but if your 18th best player is Kingzee, tough. Don't go poaching members from another country. In the end, instead of having 50 people participate, you're limiting it to 25.
In the end, what the Nation's Cup could be, and what it has turned out to be have been two very different things. Perhaps some changes will be made to make this event more competitive and exciting. Or perhaps it will remain a fun for gaming event where everyone who wants to play gets to play and everyone gets a trophy for participating. Either way, I don't hate, I don't judge, I just want to have fun. If I think it will be a fun event, sign me up. If not, I'll see you in a game that looks like it will be more fun for me.
GL HF ALL
|
|
|
NATO
Jun 1, 2007 13:36:46 GMT -5
Post by venceslas on Jun 1, 2007 13:36:46 GMT -5
When you will are 50 players in team USA and must a choice for keep only 20 or 25 players, and the capacity to make two full team, you may have another opinion Mookie Like I have stated before, french team have always make serveral team to NC, and it's the first time it's seems a problem. Organisers and others teams are happy because it get more teams(often there is not enough) and players are happy to play. Where is the problem? Could you explain a bit more which is pretty silly? chris.
|
|
|
NATO
Jun 1, 2007 15:10:55 GMT -5
Post by MookieNJ on Jun 1, 2007 15:10:55 GMT -5
In my case, as soon as I saw someone else make a post trying to start a second American team before the first one was even off the ground, I really started to lose interest in playing. All in all, I think the Nation's Cup needs to be one of two things. If it's a serious competition, it should be strictly limited to 1 team per country. If it's a fun event, then by all means let countries form as many teams as they want. At the same time, however, as a fun event there should not be strict limitations on every little detail. If someone wants to play for another team rather than the country he or she is currently living in, what's the big deal? After all, it's just a fun event. I'd love to see the whole tournament a lot more defined before people fly off the handle and flip out again.
|
|
|
NATO
Jun 1, 2007 15:40:00 GMT -5
Post by knupp on Jun 1, 2007 15:40:00 GMT -5
I think the problems revolving around Nations Cup all stem from the fact that the rules were not clearly defined. After this NC I'd love to see some discussion on what NC should be, the rules should be more clearly defined, and the types of games should be discussed.
|
|
|
NATO
Jun 1, 2007 19:29:45 GMT -5
Post by venceslas on Jun 1, 2007 19:29:45 GMT -5
The core of the nation cup is to play for a nation.
chris.
|
|
|
NATO
Jun 1, 2007 20:26:44 GMT -5
Post by eiffel on Jun 1, 2007 20:26:44 GMT -5
Considering the amount of american players in Civ4, far more than french players, there should be 3 USA teams. And the american players that are very competitive should have done their own "elite" team.
With all that happened these last days, USA almost had no team to show up... weird.
A NorthAmerica team could have been possible (USA+Canada), nothing wrong with a USA "Elite" team too but a NATO/OTAN team is really pointless for a country that could fill several teams.
|
|
|
NATO
Jun 1, 2007 23:01:45 GMT -5
Post by DrShot on Jun 1, 2007 23:01:45 GMT -5
A NorthAmerica team could have been possible (USA+Canada), nothing wrong with a USA "Elite" team too but a NATO/OTAN team is really pointless for a country that could fill several teams. Hmmm, perhaps we could start working on a NAFTA team for next time!! ;D
|
|
|
NATO
Jun 1, 2007 23:38:42 GMT -5
Post by longhorn on Jun 1, 2007 23:38:42 GMT -5
About as funny a joke as yelling fire in a crowded theatre. I think you OWE the several players who dropped out of this tournament because they don't have the same sense of humor as you a HUGE apology. I think you owe all the planners and TD's and everyone else associated with this torrnament an apology.
|
|
|
NATO
Jun 2, 2007 1:32:02 GMT -5
Post by deyreepher on Jun 2, 2007 1:32:02 GMT -5
About as funny a joke as yelling fire in a crowded theatre. I think you OWE the several players who dropped out of this tournament because they don't have the same sense of humor as you a HUGE apology. I think you owe all the planners and TD's and everyone else associated with this torrnament an apology. No, I think the people who were complaining, owe Rokkit and Poly an apology, as they were left teamless. To say that they did not want to play with us, is ridiculous. We were ready to roll with them. I followed your lead in allowing them to play on our team, only to find out it was a breach of what people expected of the NCT. So your mistake, cost two people. However, all the people that were in Team America either found new teams or were absorbed into CSA. What's the problem?
|
|
|
NATO
Jun 2, 2007 1:47:01 GMT -5
Post by deyreepher on Jun 2, 2007 1:47:01 GMT -5
A NorthAmerica team could have been possible (USA+Canada), nothing wrong with a USA "Elite" team too but a NATO/OTAN team is really pointless for a country that could fill several teams. Hmmm, perhaps we could start working on a NAFTA team for next time!! ;D What I did was, was try to substitute an organization that would have encompassed the countries of the players who were joining our squad for the NCT. As I said, there were precedents where players were joining squads where they didn't have a strong connection in national terms. Maybe it wasn't creative enough, but I thought it was a far better idea than saying, we're Americans, plus a Brit and a German.
|
|
|
NATO
Jun 2, 2007 1:49:21 GMT -5
Post by deyreepher on Jun 2, 2007 1:49:21 GMT -5
Considering the amount of american players in Civ4, far more than french players, there should be 3 USA teams. And the american players that are very competitive should have done their own "elite" team. With all that happened these last days, USA almost had no team to show up... weird. A NorthAmerica team could have been possible (USA+Canada), nothing wrong with a USA "Elite" team too but a NATO/OTAN team is really pointless for a country that could fill several teams. Well, we would have had two American teams, but it seemed that the ladder community decided it was fit for the Americans to play together instead of being allowed more than one team. It is working out well extremely well though. We are getting some players with little to no tournament experience some action and well, it probably helps that we're able to give them some advice. Though, there's no replacement for analytical ability.
|
|
|
NATO
Jun 2, 2007 4:53:16 GMT -5
Post by TheClash on Jun 2, 2007 4:53:16 GMT -5
About as funny a joke as yelling fire in a crowded theatre. I think you OWE the several players who dropped out of this tournament because they don't have the same sense of humor as you a HUGE apology. I think you owe all the planners and TD's and everyone else associated with this torrnament an apology. No, I think the people who were complaining, owe Rokkit and Poly an apology, as they were left teamless. To say that they did not want to play with us, is ridiculous. We were ready to roll with them. I followed your lead in allowing them to play on our team, only to find out it was a breach of what people expected of the NCT. So your mistake, cost two people. However, all the people that were in Team America either found new teams or were absorbed into CSA. What's the problem? Deyreepher ? Why apologies to Poly and Rokkit. Its their decision not to play. Poly could have signed up with team Germany, np. He decided not to do. Fine. His decision. Why apologies to him for his free decision ?
|
|
|
NATO
Jun 2, 2007 6:53:15 GMT -5
Post by cryptococcus on Jun 2, 2007 6:53:15 GMT -5
Longhorn, you shouldn't really talk here as you joined team Australia or some nuts. And the commonwealth is ridiculous at this point as well. As I've stated elsewhere, I don't think people realize that all RaY are American besides Rokkit and Alex. So people should just stfu now and look at their own bullnuts roster's. Maybe you should of come up with a different name and logic when you put the team up Dey or maybe the rest of us should of gotten all the facts first. At any rate the rest of you should all shut the f**k up, because your roster's are more bent then NATO ever would of been.
|
|
|
NATO
Jun 2, 2007 9:28:36 GMT -5
Post by deyreepher on Jun 2, 2007 9:28:36 GMT -5
No, I think the people who were complaining, owe Rokkit and Poly an apology, as they were left teamless. To say that they did not want to play with us, is ridiculous. We were ready to roll with them. I followed your lead in allowing them to play on our team, only to find out it was a breach of what people expected of the NCT. So your mistake, cost two people. However, all the people that were in Team America either found new teams or were absorbed into CSA. What's the problem? Deyreepher ? Why apologies to Poly and Rokkit. Its their decision not to play. Poly could have signed up with team Germany, np. He decided not to do. Fine. His decision. Why apologies to him for his free decision ? Because, when I had to cut them loose, they did not have any time to find teams. I only confirmed our roster, at the last possible minute with the absorbtion of Team USA.
|
|