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NATO
May 31, 2007 20:17:15 GMT -5
Post by deyreepher on May 31, 2007 20:17:15 GMT -5
What is your problem? Give me a good argument as to why there are objections to this team?
I was part of Team USA, but when I last checked there was a Team America. Not to mention two French teams and a combined Portugal/Turkey team. To top it off, the British Commonwealth was thrown out there. All this was out there, before I registered Team NATO/OTAN.
So give me a good god damn reason as to why there are objections? Any objection would address the issues I just mentioned. If you can't, then I'll leave it to personal prejudice.
It was mentioned before that there were way too many events for this tournament. Well, we're rolling with a team that we know can do well and win. What's the problem with that? If you had put up maybe half the events, there would be no problems for even the smaller countries fielding teams. As it is, we figured out what we needed to win and that's that.
All players reside in NATO member countries. I don't see the problem.
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NATO
May 31, 2007 20:29:49 GMT -5
Post by Death to ALL on May 31, 2007 20:29:49 GMT -5
There is one big problem with this team that non of the other mentioned teams had committed. While some of the other teams were alliances of smaller teams that couldn't gather enough players this time. And some of the teams were additional teams from the same country. Not one of these teams took members from another country to make a totally new team. Therefore if NATO wishes to play in this event as a team they should then take in every other member of the teams that they original took members from to form a true alliance team.
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NATO
May 31, 2007 20:47:23 GMT -5
Post by deyreepher on May 31, 2007 20:47:23 GMT -5
There is one big problem with this team that non of the other mentioned teams had committed. While some of the other teams were alliances of smaller teams that couldn't gather enough players this time. And some of the teams were additional teams from the same country. Not one of these teams took members from another country to make a totally new team. Therefore if NATO wishes to play in this event as a team they should then take in every other member of the teams that they original took members from to form a true alliance team. I only made the offer and players responded. Willburn did not answer the call and I respect that, he is playing for The Vikings. There is a post in the British Commonwealth team thread where there is an attempt to poach their members. I have done no such thing. I have been looking for other non-committed members, but I've only found one person due to this team forming late. If you can name the teams that we took players from, go ahead and list them. However, due to all the damn outcry. We are coming up with an alternative to stop the complaining. NATO is all about peace and security. I still don't understand all the outcry. If I wanted to hear b itching and crying, I'd jump onto Teamspeak and listen to Metallian.
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NATO
May 31, 2007 21:11:28 GMT -5
Post by Death to ALL on May 31, 2007 21:11:28 GMT -5
due to it being late and me about to call it a night, I will only give you one. I withdraw my bid to play with Team USA. I'm sorry, other duties call. You withdrew from team USA for "other duties call" instead of inviting the entire team there to join you in this venture.
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NATO
May 31, 2007 21:39:28 GMT -5
Post by deyreepher on May 31, 2007 21:39:28 GMT -5
You withdrew from team USA for "other duties call" instead of inviting the entire team there to join you in this venture.[/quote]
The problem being? I didn't see you give Team America this much flak. I wouldn't have had a problem with you trying to police NATO, if you had given Team America some lip.
I'm sorry, there was 3 weeks inbetween the time I signed up for Team USA and moved onto NATO. There were no practice games, no strategy session, nothing. Are you going to fault me for not wanting to be on a team that attempted no preparation or practice for this event?
That's the damn problem with the CCC and the low scoring teams that participate in that event. You slap a team together and just go. It doesn't work that way, it takes time to prepare, analyze the scenarios that can come up, practice with the teammates that are going to be in the matches with you. None of that happened, so I can tell you the outcome. A big waste of time, at least to me. I'm sorry if you don't see it that way, but when I see other teams work hard to succeed in a competitive environment it makes me want to compete on a higher level as well. RaY, the French clans, and especially RUS. All examples of teams that prepare, analyze, and execute.
So, yes, my captains did not prepare jack squat, and that is Mookie included, so I did what I deemed necessary to field a team that has a shot at doing well in this event. I looked at the rosters to see who was available, I asked around, and I mentioned what I was doing to the people I'm around. I suppose I should be sorry for whipping up support and enthusiasm for players who were really non-committed to even participating in this.
If you don't expect people to field competitive teams, then why call it a damn tournament? If you're going to run a competitive event, expect competitive people to play and don't rag on them for trying to do their best to participate to their fullest.
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NATO
May 31, 2007 22:14:42 GMT -5
Post by Death to ALL on May 31, 2007 22:14:42 GMT -5
If you want an event where you play in a group that spends a lot of time working together and training with each other, then stick with the CCC, that is what it is. If you felt that the USA team should be like that also, then you should have spoken up and taken the reins to make it so. To put the blame at only the 2 captains feet for that is just a form of passing the buck for your own failings as well.
The main purpose of this event is to get players together on the same team that would not necessarily have joined together due to being in different clans, or not in a clan at all.
In the end this is a game and it is not all about just winning, but also about just taking part win or lose.
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NATO
May 31, 2007 22:31:20 GMT -5
Post by deyreepher on May 31, 2007 22:31:20 GMT -5
If you want an event where you play in a group that spends a lot of time working together and training with each other, then stick with the CCC, that is what it is. If you felt that the USA team should be like that also, then you should have spoken up and taken the reins to make it so. To put the blame at only the 2 captains feet for that is just a form of passing the buck for your own failings as well. The main purpose of this event is to get players together on the same team that would not necessarily have joined together due to being in different clans, or not in a clan at all. In the end this is a game and it is not all about just winning, but also about just taking part win or lose. Well, a leader is there to take the blame. So I am blaming the captains of Team USA for noobing it up. But that's fine, I'm coming up with an alternative to quell the complaining. The question is, will all the pieces come together before the closing of rosters on Friday? I'm not sure. And the getting together of different people on different teams...it's called Random/Shuffle Ladder Teamer.
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NATO
May 31, 2007 22:37:59 GMT -5
Post by Matlowe on May 31, 2007 22:37:59 GMT -5
omg everyone knows its just Dey being GaY coz he from RaY! Nato is not a country never will be so shut the f**k up and play for your country u nerd. always trying to play with your clannies just coz u suck so bad not our fault. instead of whining about no training games etc why not f**kyn talk to people and start some. Its not that hard to put a little effort into a first time tournament instead of being a wanker and leaving and making some false country/nation with a nutsload of players from your clan. Nato isnt a contry nor part of a country nor got anything to do with a country. Gettting straight to the point. hf with it Mat
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NATO
May 31, 2007 22:40:38 GMT -5
Post by NumberOneMercury on May 31, 2007 22:40:38 GMT -5
Team America had four members below the minimum six when it was dissolved, and in case you didn't read the thread I made a deal to accomodate all former members with another group that didn't have enough to play at the time.
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NATO
May 31, 2007 22:53:38 GMT -5
Post by deyreepher on May 31, 2007 22:53:38 GMT -5
Don't worry, I'm thinking we'll be disbanding this team and folding into another. After review, it does appear we need a roster as large as the British team's to FULLY participate in this event. So, I let Levi know, this b itching over NATO will come to an end as I believe DTA went to sleep.
I have a team in mind to fold into, with only the active members of NATO which is actually less than 10 players.
I talked to Levi about my intentions, but I have to wait for the team that we want to fold into to wake up.
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NATO
May 31, 2007 23:00:47 GMT -5
Post by Matlowe on May 31, 2007 23:00:47 GMT -5
of course u would do that wouldnt u dey. fold into another team with your clan members.
So weak to not play with anyone else apart from the clan u have grown up with.
And its ok we all know that without them u would be nothing. hope u have alot of fun this tournament as this is what it is all about bud. Not all about winning.
Mat
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NATO
May 31, 2007 23:04:03 GMT -5
Post by deyreepher on May 31, 2007 23:04:03 GMT -5
omg everyone knows its just Dey being GaY coz he from RaY! Nato is not a country never will be so shut the f**k up and play for your country u nerd. always trying to play with your clannies just coz u suck so bad not our fault. instead of whining about no training games etc why not f**kyn talk to people and start some. Its not that hard to put a little effort into a first time tournament instead of being a wanker and leaving and making some false country/nation with a nutsload of players from your clan. Nato isnt a contry nor part of a country nor got anything to do with a country. Gettting straight to the point. hf with it Mat You just showed your colours...it's about RaY. I don't know why you have such animosity towards RaY. For the members of NATO to translate their abilities into the events for the NCT is a fairly straightforward thing. My not playing for Team USA is a political statement. I already served my country in the military, so I don't think I need to play for it in Civ IV. The world is a bigger place than countries, but that's my philosophy and I'll leave it at that. It's obvious you don't share that sentiment, but then maybe you do as you're playing as part of the British Commonwealth. I'm sure I wouldn't get an invite, but I lived in Nigeria for awhile, would I be eligible to play for your team? I'm not using it as an example, but I did live in Abuja, Nigeria for some time. Well, your personal attacks on me...they're just that. If you have a stronger argument, I welcome that input.
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NATO
May 31, 2007 23:14:38 GMT -5
Post by deyreepher on May 31, 2007 23:14:38 GMT -5
of course u would do that wouldnt u dey. fold into another team with your clan members. So weak to not play with anyone else apart from the clan u have grown up with. And its ok we all know that without them u would be nothing. hope u have alot of fun this tournament as this is what it is all about bud. Not all about winning. Mat I play Shuffle/Teamers all the time. If that doesn't constitute not playing RaY vs, I don't know what is. And you're right, I am just a Civ IV player without my clan, no arguing that. I'm proud that our clan scraped our way to where it is today. We lost our first several CCCs, to being contenders in the CCC of today. What's wrong with that? Being part of a team constitutes teamwork and if all I can do is sit around support my team by being a sub for events (which I have done), so what? I'm still helping the team out. However, this all requires teamwork. Part of the fun of playing in tournaments is going over the strategies, working out a game plan, scheduling players for events. Unfortunately, Mookie did not want to take up those duties and I saw no action from EmperorPenguin. Your team is blessed to have DD as the captain, he's put in the groundwork, the effort, and is probably going over strategies with you. Why would I want to compete against such a team? It would be a slaughter. My time would be better spent masturbating in the shower as at least I'll be getting off. So yes, I want to play in the NCT, but no I don't want to play for Team USA for personal reasons and the ones I've just mentioned in this post. As I see it, NATO created an uproar that never should have happened, but that's fine. I'm a team player, I know the TDs that are organizing this event are doing so out of their personal time, so I'll be withdrawing NATO from the NCT, but ONLY once we get into another team. I have informed Levi as he was the only TD available to discuss this with, though he is not one of the main TDs organizing this event, it's better than nothing.
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NATO
Jun 1, 2007 0:01:53 GMT -5
Post by deyreepher on Jun 1, 2007 0:01:53 GMT -5
If this team is a joke, you really owned us guys. And if it's not a joke, it is pityful. Different countries playing together is ok as long as they don't get enough players to make several teams, while this is just a trick to make a RaY team with a different name. Very disappointing. I trust admins to make the right decision about this team... Umm...We're not the biggest perpatrator of this. Including myself, only Mookie and Elgis left Team USA for NATO, hardly a deal breaker. There is a super team out there, in terms of roster. However, I believe it is needed to have a full roster to play in NCT. It took some creative thinking for the Commonwealth to fill its roster and I just too the ball and ran with it. There is straight up hypocrisy going on here. There is nothing I did not do here that did not have a precedent.
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NATO
Jun 1, 2007 0:38:16 GMT -5
Post by mansurji on Jun 1, 2007 0:38:16 GMT -5
Once again it seems there are some tense in here I'll try to set up my point of view clearly and quietly. As first statement, i'll say i have a lot of sympathy to Ray. They are great players, team workers, and usually nice people. As i already said, while i had a sucking connection, the only c4p games i played were Ray vs, cuz they were the only c4p players patient enough to handle my connec. As it seems "ray bashing" is a sentence oftenly used to counter other forum posters, take this as a "ray praising" comment. By this way, i hope my post will have a greater impact than other before. The Nation cup has been well welcomed on french ladder. There's been a big rush about setting teams, then setting the planning and the trainings. It has been such a good period, full of excitement and freshness. We've been lucky enough to be able to set 2 full teams, of players interested to play together and to defend the France vs other countries. The most interesting part of this is the fact that players from different clans or clanless are mixed together and have to set fitting strats and teamworks in limited time. In my opinion, this should increase the level of all french clans by mixing points of views and game strats, and should also lead to stronger links between players that wouldn't have known each others well. The whole point of the NC is here : mixing players from different clans under a flag within limited time, then send em all into a big fight, with the flag being here nations. What NATO organisation is doing is exactly the opposite, an old school scheme : taking players from different nations and set them in a clan formation, players that knows each others well for playing everyday together. If we want this kind of thing, then we set a clan competition, that we could call, like, say, CCC. I mean, we're here to play France vs Russia, or UK vs US games, then to know which country will be able to taunt his opponents for months. If you guys want to play a France vs Ray, or a Germany vs Ray, we will be pleased to play exhibition match at any time. But don't bring clans where it shouldn't be, into a nation cup. Because this is all about NATIONS! Keep this in my mind, look at what NATO is, then tell me if you do truly think NATO fit into a nations cup. The perverse effect of NATO being a conglomerate of many nations is to steal players that were already involved in their countries. As i said, we had very few time to prepare this NC, teams leaders get involved to set a planning running correctly, and this should be respected. I'm thinking to the UK and USA teams particulary. Setting a whole new team 2 days before the competition and using other nations players seems to me like an awesome lack of respect to all the captains that tried to set up something correct. All this to say the whole point of NC in my opinion is mixing players from different clans into one team fighting for their country, all together despite their difference. It's not much about winning, but about having epic games of nation's champions fighting, and this is a great idea. Please guys don't f*ck up this by wanting to play it with people you play everyday with, and by laughing at the "nation" idea.
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NATO
Jun 1, 2007 1:28:29 GMT -5
Post by venceslas on Jun 1, 2007 1:28:29 GMT -5
"So yes, I want to play in the NCT, but no I don't want to play for Team USA for personal reasons and the ones I've just mentioned in this post"
That's an interesting point. I think somewhere in the forum it's stated that you must play for your nation. Sure the rule can come in in gray area(double nationality)., but here it's not.
Your statement(in my view) cross the red line. With such statement, every player can play in every team. I have no opinion on your reason(assume that you have very good reasons), however I think you are violating the rule. That's the same thing if I would create a team Europe because I don't want to play in french team. Or south hemisphere because I don't want to play in such a country. Well all these word to say, it's probably better in your case from do not participate to the NC(because you don't want to play for USA) rather using trick like NATO.
The main point to merge several countries is to get a team, not to reject a team for personnal reason, or to make poor other teams.
In my view NATO team violate the concept of nation's cup in at least two point:
- You must play for team USA because it's your nation. or you cannot come in the NC. - The aim of merge team is allowed to get a decent roster, not to make poor roster from others nation or for personnal reasons.
and so is not eligible to come in the NC because contrary to the spirit of NC.
No offense deyreepher, just my point.
chris.
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NATO
Jun 1, 2007 2:20:55 GMT -5
Post by toratoratora on Jun 1, 2007 2:20:55 GMT -5
well one things for sure If I see Team Nato in Event 1 Im going to use The Delete Button
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NATO
Jun 1, 2007 2:40:57 GMT -5
Post by toratoratora on Jun 1, 2007 2:40:57 GMT -5
IF this team does take part which is becomming very unlikely I call on All European Nations to Make some Team EU teams
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NATO
Jun 1, 2007 3:55:19 GMT -5
Post by cryptococcus on Jun 1, 2007 3:55:19 GMT -5
Dey are you slowed? You took a clan and entered them in nation cup.
My roster for team World:
GOD Roster
Do you not see the problem here?
This is not CCC and you just made it CCC.
Maybe you can screw up Knupp's tournament too. With the whole premise being playing with other people not in your clan.
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NATO
Jun 1, 2007 4:14:06 GMT -5
Post by IanDC on Jun 1, 2007 4:14:06 GMT -5
I'm sure I wouldn't get an invite, but I lived in Nigeria for awhile, would I be eligible to play for your team? I'm not using it as an example, but I did live in Abuja, Nigeria for some time. As an American you could always claim membership on the grounds that your ancesters were Loyalists oppressed by the tyrant Washington & his successors for generations ;D
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