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Post by thegreatsatan on Dec 21, 2007 16:05:13 GMT -5
I was actaully against the war in Iraq and I still am. The populace in Iraq are paying such a shltty price for this war right now. The refugess are enourmas, tons in damscus, tons in saudi arabia and they are gettting such shltty treatment. Its not really fair for the reasons America is there. Pre emptive war means one thing, unilateral response. For that we need a UN. I am truly sad Paul Martin wasn't in longer, he was going to push a G-20. He had such a great global perspective. Harper is okay but he lacks it, as he is more interested in grooming Peter Mckay as the next prime minister. Hes more of a global status quo and in house politics then anything in a global theater. What I am saying is that the best force we have is Nato and half the countrys in it are to scared to commit. Sucks, but thats the reality of afghanistan, which I am all for and was for after 911. G-20 sounded gooood. Not sure what else there might be, but maybe another nation can pick up that banner. Something is needed tho as the UN is eniffectual in alot of its dealings. Nato is a post WW2 organsiation, little outdated and an unclear mandate. Whats the solution then? Paul Martin was on the right track I think. ok ok, so the same people that said Iraq had WMDs (and they were wrong) now say Iran doesn't have WMDs and you believe them? I guess we should wait for them to use a nuke before we do something about it. The few million people it kills will understand that you had to wait to take action because it wasn't PC at the time to stop them. Even though they threated to use them earlier several times. BTW, Iraqies say they got way more hope for the future now that Saddam is gone. Life totally sucked then. It sucks now, but its still better, and getting better everyday. The bring Saddam back crowd is loosing bad over there
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Post by whiplash on Dec 21, 2007 16:18:21 GMT -5
I have a question for all of the left-leaning, peace-loving, Bush haters out there.
Looking at the history of mankind one sees a consistent phenomenon. That is WAR, usually undertaken to expand/establish an empire. This has happened over, and over, and over ... The last time was within my lifetime and it killed 60 million people.
The question is:
WHY DO YOU THINK SOMETHING CHANGED SO THAT IT WON'T HAPPEN AGAIN?
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marr
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Post by marr on Dec 21, 2007 16:22:36 GMT -5
I was supporting the UN when Anon declared the war illigal and I still do. I mean if your a country and you suscribe to this organisation, then adhere to it, right?
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marr
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Post by marr on Dec 21, 2007 16:27:49 GMT -5
@ Whip.
Equality. Kinda easy to sympathise with the victims and with todays technology, even easier because those victims can talk to us in our livingrooms through the internet!
Communication has changed, the ability to talk has changed. We all have one voice and that is being practised more and more.
In the last 100 years whip, we have climbed out of the villages in our developed nations, gotten cars and learnt how to deal with the bombastic nature of personal identity while dealing with the floods of marketing and a saturated audience of said messages.
Not all countrys have had that luxery and are still learning yesterdays lessons. Patience man and education trump war. More importantly its our responsibilites to let these countries learn the lessons we learnt on thier own.
Would Mcarthy have survived even one rant if the internet was available at the time?
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Post by thegreatsatan on Dec 21, 2007 21:31:42 GMT -5
I have a question for all of the left-leaning, peace-loving, Bush haters out there. Looking at the history of mankind one sees a consistent phenomenon. That is WAR, usually undertaken to expand/establish an empire. This has happened over, and over, and over ... The last time was within my lifetime and it killed 60 million people. The question is: WHY DO YOU THINK SOMETHING CHANGED SO THAT IT WON'T HAPPEN AGAIN? Hey Mr.Whip, aren't there always a bunch of peace nicks praising the "hitler types" before big wars brake out? Don't the "hitler types" always claim to victoms of something too?
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Post by DrShot on Dec 21, 2007 23:11:08 GMT -5
I was actaully against the war in Iraq and I still am. I was for the war before I was against it... sounds familiar.
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Post by DrShot on Dec 21, 2007 23:14:44 GMT -5
whiplash said: Is it me whip or do you also think that 7 billion a year into the missile defence plan is a huuuuge waste of money? I bet ya dollars to donuts that whip thinks like Julius: [At the secret government lab] President Thomas Whitmore: I don't understand, where does all this come from? How do you get funding for something like this? Julius Levinson: You don't actually think they spend $20,000.00 on a hammer, $30,000.00 on a toilet seat do you?
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Post by DrShot on Dec 21, 2007 23:31:01 GMT -5
I was supporting the UN when Anon declared the war illigal and I still do. I mean if your a country and you suscribe to this organisation, then adhere to it, right? Illogical. Very. Boot Marr. So if your mom suddenly says there are aliens invading, you believe her? If your favorite Daily Paper you subscribe to says the Earth really is flat... Instead of listing an endless list of examples crazy and insane lets just say that to be a part of a group does not mean one need blindly go along with it,no? I was following orders does not grant protection from war crimes. Marr, why did it take you almost a month and a half to reply to tgs question about if you support iran or not (any nation really ) having weapons. I will not re iterate the points I have made and Whip touched upon AGAIN, as was obviously needed concerning Iran and their weapons Facility. Hey, I even posted a sat pik of it ... when it was above ground rofl. Talk about spending money. Why go subterranean with a massive facility already functioning above ground? Not peculiar at all to you? It is not to keep the bombs out, we could invade and overtake the facility. Likely we have bombs that could get to it anyway. Keeping prying (spying ) eyes out is a grand reason. Keeping "inspectors" out is a solid reason. Keeping the sand out, well I doubt that was an issue. I do not believe Iran has Nuke Weaponry. They will use it PDQ when they do achieve that status, I have no doubt about it. They have said so, quite clearly and repetitively. Marr: No less than 4 times has it been mentioned in this thread alone that the "basic" energy facility they have now could produce weapons grade materials. There are, as I recall, about 1/2 a doz parts that can be altered/removed to make a certain US semi automatic rifle into a automatic rifle. I hope you can draw the parallel.
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Post by DrShot on Dec 21, 2007 23:35:47 GMT -5
@ Whip. Equality. Kinda easy to sympathise with the victims and with todays technology, even easier because those victims can talk to us in our livingrooms through the internet! Communication has changed, the ability to talk has changed. We all have one voice and that is being practised more and more. In the last 100 years whip, we have climbed out of the villages in our developed nations, gotten cars and learnt how to deal with the bombastic nature of personal identity while dealing with the floods of marketing and a saturated audience of said messages. Not all countrys have had that luxery and are still learning yesterdays lessons. Patience man and education trump war. More importantly its our responsibilites to let these countries learn the lessons we learnt on thier own. Would Mcarthy have survived even one rant if the internet was available at the time? The ultimate determinant in the struggle now going on for the world will not be bombs and rockets but a test of wills and ideas-a trial of spiritual resolve: the values we hold, the beliefs we cherish and the ideals to which we are dedicated. Ronald Reagan
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Post by DrShot on Dec 21, 2007 23:37:03 GMT -5
I have a question for all of the left-leaning, peace-loving, Bush haters out there. Looking at the history of mankind one sees a consistent phenomenon. That is WAR, usually undertaken to expand/establish an empire. This has happened over, and over, and over ... The last time was within my lifetime and it killed 60 million people. The question is: WHY DO YOU THINK SOMETHING CHANGED SO THAT IT WON'T HAPPEN AGAIN? Apparently marr thinks the internet is the solution
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Post by DrShot on Dec 21, 2007 23:53:28 GMT -5
Im already in this thread so why not post it here:
"In the next century, nations as we know them will be obsolete; all states will recognize a single, global authority. National sovereignty wasn't such a great idea after all." - Strobe Talbot, Clinton's Deputy Secretary of State, as quoted in Time, July 20th, l992.
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marr
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Posts: 169
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Post by marr on Dec 22, 2007 13:51:13 GMT -5
Marr Said:
"Patience man and education trump war."
The internet is simply a tool.
If the Nuclear site is underground, when was it built (Pre 2003)? That has been covered in this thread. From 2003 - current; Iran has not been seeking nuclear weapons.
Further, if America doesn't like Iran or Islams in general, then America can go to war against Iran. If America thinks Iran has a nuclear weapon, or any country for that matter has WMD's of any kind that conflict with Americas interests or its way of life, then destroy them. If America feels that Isreal needs protection from Islams and the Islam way of life, hell go to war and kill the Islams.
Meh, its Americas choice to declare war on who it wants with whatever weapons it has, so whats the issue here?
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Post by thegreatsatan on Dec 22, 2007 14:46:24 GMT -5
patiecnt and educated men start wars too
yup
Only according to the same people that said Saddam had WMDs. They now say Iran don't. Even after Iran has threatened to use them. They also have left-wing political agendas. They'll say anything that they think will hurt Bush. Bush after all is the enemy of the left. Not the people that would cut the heads off the left wingers if they came to power.
I could care less about Iran. Its Iran that hates me because my culture don't fallow thier religous law.
Its the Islams that hate America. I, once again, could care less about some po-dunk religion out of the 7th century. Its the Islams that want to change me.
so if in a few months we suddenly learn Iran has nukes afterall, you, marr, are for going to war with them? You will think a war with Iran is justified? I bet you will find some new reason why we should wait for them to set off a nuke, killing millions of Americans you seem to hate anyways, before you are for any war like actions agaisnt any government.
You, up there in Canada, are immune to this threat only because nobody cares about you. It would be a waist of a nuke to nuke you in the eyes of an islam. The islams know that without America propping up your little socialist system, you'll fall on your own. If they nuked you, they know that America would come to your rescue and all there effort will be for nothing. Besides, they know that Canada will bend to there will without firing a shot. They know they can force there way of life on you and you wont resist.
We do need protection or they will conquere us and make us all fallow "gods law"
This issue is, do we (the USA or Isreal) wait for Iran to nuke somebody (mainly the USA or Isreal, both of which you hate anyway) or do we take pre emtive action. Launch a war that the UN will no dought call illegal again.
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marr
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Post by marr on Dec 22, 2007 19:07:55 GMT -5
And with this post, I rest my case.
TGS Said:
"This issue is, do we (the USA or Isreal) wait for Iran to nuke somebody (mainly the USA or Isreal, both of which you hate anyway) or do we take pre emtive action. Launch a war that the UN will no dought call illegal again."
Its time for Change in America.
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Post by thegreatsatan on Dec 22, 2007 19:14:39 GMT -5
And with this post, I rest my case. TGS Said: "This issue is, do we (the USA or Isreal) wait for Iran to nuke somebody (mainly the USA or Isreal, both of which you hate anyway) or do we take pre emtive action. Launch a war that the UN will no dought call illegal again." Its time for Change in America. what kinda change Marr? Thats so broad it means nothing (like most of your post). Come on brotha, speak your mind man. Let the world know what kinda change you want to see in America. Should we change our pants? I know I need to.
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marr
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Post by marr on Dec 22, 2007 19:20:34 GMT -5
We do need protection or they will conquere us and make us all fallow "gods law"
Answer that
The islams know that without America propping up your little socialist system, you'll fall on your own. If they nuked you, they know that America would come to your rescue and all there effort will be for nothing.
Do you honestly believe that?
I could care less about Iran. Its Iran that hates me because my culture don't fallow thier religous law.
Is this sarcasm?
They'll say anything that they think will hurt Bush. Bush after all is the enemy of the left. Not the people that would cut the heads off the left wingers if they came to power.
And this... I mean is this a generalisation or you coming at me straight?
I mean if I were to take each of your points at face value, America scares the living Fooking nuts out of me TGS.
Thats why I mean its time for change in America.
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Post by thegreatsatan on Dec 22, 2007 19:38:02 GMT -5
We do need protection or they will conquere us and make us all fallow "gods law"
the laws the islams fallow they call gods laws. They call our constitution mans law.
The islams know that without America propping up your little socialist system, you'll fall on your own. If they nuked you, they know that America would come to your rescue and all there effort will be for nothing.
It is true. Canada uses America as a backup. It would be a waist of a nuke to nuke you.... yep all good here
I could care less about Iran. Its Iran that hates me because my culture don't fallow thier religous law.
Nope. I don't care about a patch of sand called Iran thats some 3000 miles away. Atleast not until they started threating to blow me up.
They'll say anything that they think will hurt Bush. Bush after all is the enemy of the left. Not the people that would cut the heads off the left wingers if they came to power.
lets see.... political guys out to get Bush.... yep Bush enemy of the left... yep, all Islams hate liberal lifestyles and liberals would be fist to go..... yup all checks out
I just took you on point to point. I know you are more scared of America then you are of America's enemys. Its part of the hate America/capitalism brainwashing movement. America's enemy's would wrap up your women, kill your gays, and rule you like dictator.
This your slogan? I ask for the 2nd time, what change marr? Tell us what change we need? We need your guidenss oh wize marr. What changes can we make to suit you?
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marr
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Post by marr on Dec 22, 2007 20:27:58 GMT -5
TGS Said:
the laws the islams fallow they call gods laws. They call our constitution mans law.
"In God We Trust" ??
It is true. Canada uses America as a backup. It would be a waist of a nuke to nuke you.... yep all good here
Canada is a waste of a nuke. Nice touch man;)
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marr
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Post by marr on Dec 22, 2007 20:42:44 GMT -5
TGS Said:
the laws the islams fallow they call gods laws. They call our constitution mans law.
"In God We Trust" ??
It is true. Canada uses America as a backup. It would be a waist of a nuke to nuke you.... yep all good here
Canada is a waste of a nuke. Nice touch man;)
Nope. I don't care about a patch of sand called Iran thats some 3000 miles away. Atleast not until they started threating to blow me up.
They'll say anything that they think will hurt Bush. Bush after all is the enemy of the left. Not the people that would cut the heads off the left wingers if they came to power.
Who is they? Who is the left? Who is the people? See a disturbing generalisation here?
lets see.... political guys out to get Bush.... yep Bush enemy of the left... yep, all Islams hate liberal lifestyles and liberals would be fist to go..... yup all checks out
This is the epitome of the two party failure. Read this and reflect.
I just took you on point to point. I know you are more scared of America then you are of America's enemys. Its part of the hate America/capitalism brainwashing movement. America's enemy's would wrap up your women, kill your gays, and rule you like dictator.
You TGS, (America) Scare me. If you can speak on behalf of your nation and if your thoughts are the current rationalities of its times, then yes, America scares the fooking shlt out of me. If its just you and the general population isn't anything like you, then I am cool.
This your slogan? I ask for the 2nd time, what change marr? Tell us what change we need? We need your guidenss oh wize marr. What changes can we make to suit you?
I am Canadian TGS. I can't answer that:)
If I were American I bet my answer tho would be Preemptive strikes against any country that supports an Islamic Population! Saudia Arabia included!
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marr
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Post by marr on Dec 22, 2007 20:44:57 GMT -5
Blame my keyboard for the double post.
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