marr
Worker
Posts: 169
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Post by marr on Dec 5, 2007 6:26:13 GMT -5
www.cbc.ca/news/viewpoint/vp_kinsman/20071204.htmlAnd if you want to paint a picture of Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, lets play. 1:) Freedom of the speach in the west is not so free when places in the west abolish any spoken word of the nazis. If you want a list, I believe there are 11 western countrys which specifically abolish from spoken speach, words of Nazis. Cartoons of the Muhamed, sparked the nazi rhetoric from Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, who started his own cartoons. 2:) If you carefully watch this man, everything he does has to be within the Iatolahs wishes. Common knowledge, then how crazy is he? He is a calculating man, who challenges anything and everything, to create equality. 3:) Isreal has nuclear weapons and wants to launch a joint force against Iran because of its nuclear ambitions. It denies this new information from the NCI proclaiming its initial assertation was wrong concerning Irans nuclear capablities. Isreal wants Irans nuclear facilities destroyed, Isreal wants war with Iran. (Isreal is allowed to have nuclear weapons) Just maybe, Just maybe; Iran is justified to have other interests that might conflict with the wests. Just maybe, just maybe, its none of the wests business. Anyways, Iran should be allowed to have a nuclear reactor. That is the crux of my point.
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Post by DrShot on Dec 5, 2007 22:32:26 GMT -5
Does not merrit a reply, sorry.
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Post by whiplash on Dec 5, 2007 22:46:11 GMT -5
I thought I'd try; but the seed post is so fragmented that I couldn't construct a logical reply without tearing it apart.
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Post by thegreatsatan on Dec 5, 2007 23:07:02 GMT -5
www.cbc.ca/news/viewpoint/vp_kinsman/20071204.htmlAnd if you want to paint a picture of Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, lets play. 1:) Freedom of the speach in the west is not so free when places in the west abolish any spoken word of the nazis. If you want a list, I believe there are 11 western countrys which specifically abolish from spoken speach, words of Nazis. Cartoons of the Muhamed, sparked the nazi rhetoric from Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, who started his own cartoons. 2:) If you carefully watch this man, everything he does has to be within the Iatolahs wishes. Common knowledge, then how crazy is he? He is a calculating man, who challenges anything and everything, to create equality. 3:) Isreal has nuclear weapons and wants to launch a joint force against Iran because of its nuclear ambitions. It denies this new information from the NCI proclaiming its initial assertation was wrong concerning Irans nuclear capablities. Isreal wants Irans nuclear facilities destroyed, Isreal wants war with Iran. (Isreal is allowed to have nuclear weapons) Just maybe, Just maybe; Iran is justified to have other interests that might conflict with the wests. Just maybe, just maybe, its none of the wests business. Anyways, Iran should be allowed to have a nuclear reactor. That is the crux of my point. Yep, the more people with nukes the better, right marr? Especially when they openly claim they want to wipe Isreal off the map. Israel is slowly being dragged into the grave by the liberal peace nicks. Israel is the Islams "little satan", "the great satan", America, will be next. But you don't care. You hate America and Israel anyway. Why don't you go to Iran and sign up to defend there nuke sites. Hell, why don't you just advicate giving Iran nukes. Say, "I, Marr, am for giving nukes to Iran so they can be equal. Syria needs them too. And If I could hook up north korea with some intercontinental blistic missles, I would. Because, like me, they are just victoms of American greed."
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capitalistpig
Settler
Those trying to save you from 1984 are leading you into a brave new world.
Posts: 51
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Post by capitalistpig on Dec 6, 2007 3:34:40 GMT -5
well played Great Satan, your spelling however is not beyond reproach.
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marr
Worker
Posts: 169
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Post by marr on Dec 6, 2007 5:56:01 GMT -5
The problem quite clearly TGS, has nothing to do with Iran, or North Korea. Funny how you bought out North Korea with a couple other nations for a few meager hundred milllion or was it billion dollars to stop its nuclear program, (which it has) and paid billions or was it trillions of dollars to go to war in Iraq, (who doesn't have nuclear weapons)
So as I see it TGS, Iran and Korea are not the problem. The problem here is your FREEDOM. That oh so precious illicit thing you think is soley American, soley belonging to your country alone. Thankfully, not everyone seems to share this sentiment, but to us in Canada who also have FREEDOM, we don't define our culture, our country around it. I could be wrong tho, maybe American freedom is better then all the other freedoms out there.
Maybe your scared TGS, that Iran or Korea holding nukes with of course America being the freest country of the world, as its the best country in the world, just might want to take your freedom away from you? I mean, if you seriously believe this, the terrorists have won already.
Iran holding Nukes; ponder this for a second... Okay second is up. If Iran wanted Nukes, whats to stop Russia giving Iran nukes? How did Isreal get its nukes? Why are we not sanctioning Isreal? Why does Isreal get to want to wage war on Iran but Iran can't get to wage war on Isreal?
Is it the whole Iran is Islamic, Islam hates christianity thing? Geee, that kinda goes back to the early days of jeruslahem and the first crusades. Little Satan TGS, don't think that prevalant thought is quite so modern.
Let go that precious thing you try so hard to hold on to and just ENJOY your freedom. Don't let others define it for you, as in your country is only so free because its free'er then Iran for example. That leads to bigotry and hatred.
Who is more hateful TGS, me who loves America, has lots of friends in America, lives an hour from America and thinks of America as Canadas little brother, also like Islam as I know some people who practice the religion are terrific individuals; or you TGS, you who labels, castrates thoughts and opinions with defining hypocrasys. Even in this post TGS, after you call me hateful, I reply with kind words and not an uttered nuance proclaiming your inferiority.
I close with this last thought, India, Pakistan. Iran, Isreal. Of course, ASSUMING, Iran makes or has a nuclear weapon.
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marr
Worker
Posts: 169
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Post by marr on Dec 6, 2007 15:56:09 GMT -5
Dr. Shot said:
Does not merrit a reply, sorry.
I am replying to a reply that isn't merited. Why did I reply then?
Whiplash Said:
I thought I'd try; but the seed post is so fragmented that I couldn't construct a logical reply without tearing it apart.
Anyways, I agree with both of you, it was vague and lacked some cohesion. I suppose alot of my points were in the article and I could have illistrated that more with a few more quotes. Thanks for the insight.
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Post by thegreatsatan on Dec 6, 2007 17:01:23 GMT -5
The way you write/word it makes it sound like you're bummed these things happened. I know how much you liked seeing Saddam Husian passing out lotto lookin checks on TV to the family's of suicide bombers. You probably cheered every time Israel got hit. I know your also bummed about NK stopping there nuke program. This means no nukes to give to terrorist to bomb America or Israel.
I know thats how you see it. I've been saying that. Your brainwashed into believing America is the enemy
I know you think this marr. Thats what I've been saying the hole time. You hate freedom
America is the leader of "freedom"
Because you live in a socialist country bent on pleasing everyone. You have no problem with country's that use slave labor or oppress women.
Thats why everyone in oppressed country's runs to America
OMG, LOL, you nailed it. I am scared a bunch of commies or Islamic fundamentalist will attack America and enslave the populace
They have won, America is past the point of no return and will slowly fall IMO. France may be the last hope for FREEDOM on earth
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capitalistpig
Settler
Those trying to save you from 1984 are leading you into a brave new world.
Posts: 51
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Post by capitalistpig on Dec 17, 2007 2:37:34 GMT -5
Iran threatens to annihilate Isreal constantly, and clearly intends to use nuclear weapons to wipe Isreal off the map. Sometimes if you wanna know what somebody is thinking, you should listen while they tell you. Isreal wants to attack Iran's nuclear program. Isreal has no intentions of invading Iran, they just dont want Iran to have nukes. How can you sit there and say that Isreal "threatening" to prevent its own annihilation is just as bad as the nation that is threatening to annihilate them. You honestly dont see how slowed that is?? Seriously? ?? Say no to crack..............
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marr
Worker
Posts: 169
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Post by marr on Dec 17, 2007 5:56:12 GMT -5
Irans Rhetoric comes after Ohlmert threatens to wipe out Irans Nuclear Facilities. It started in 2006, after Isreal made mention that Iran "Would have a price to pay" if it didn't stop its nuclear ambitions. www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/article1909896.ecewww.norcalblogs.com/post_scripts/archives/2006/01/iran_threatens.htmlabclocal.go.com/wpvi/story?section=nation_world&id=4678945Maybe its the arrogance of the 'west' to assume we have the assertive right to say what countries can and can not do, what techs they can and can not have. The simple truth is there are two options. Embargo or attack. Anything else is morally ambigious. Iran can have a nuclear facility whether you like it or not capilolist pig. Doesn't make me slowed, it makes me a realist. Nothing you, nor a Nations leader can say any different. You can mass media it so I can be morally indifferent to a war with Iran, or even encourage such a thing, but I as a free thinking individual am already indifferent to Irans freedoms as a country in what it can and cannot do. Iran states its nuclear ambitions are for peaceful purposes. Sure, doesn't matter to me as I am already indifferent to the fact they can build whatever the hell they want in thier country. Iran states it will wipe Isreal off the map. Whatever, do what ya gotta do. I mean if thats the reflection of its populace, then go to war and commence wiping Isreal off the map. Meh, will it happen? Nah. So tell me again Capolisticpig, Can Iran have a Nuclear Facility? The answer is yes. Should someone stop them? The answer is no. Will someone try? The answer is maybe. Will it be Isreal? The answer will be yes. Thats the reason Ameria sold 500 bombs to Isreal a few years ago and admonished Isreal publicly for using those bombs on Hezbollah. If Iran completes its nuclear reactor, it won't be Iran who fires the first shot. That tells me something, probably something to you to. Guess we are just 'listening' to two different things.
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Post by thegreatsatan on Dec 17, 2007 12:32:54 GMT -5
marr, why not advocate giving Iran nukes and intercontinental ballistic missiles, in the name of peace and fairness of course? North Korea would also like some help with there missiles too.
Say, I marr, am for arming Iran and North Korea, to help in there struggle against democracy and capitalism.
The leaders of those country's seem like good ol American hatin liberals. I'm sure they just want these weapons so they can display them in there parades. No military arms parade is complete without the long range nuke missiles.
I'm sure the last thing they would do is use them, killing millions. After all, Islam is the religion of peace. NK only wants to unify Korea under 1 communist dictatorship. Uniting rouge capitalist democracy's under 1 communist dictatorship ran by liberals and there family's is every liberals dream.
Iran threatens Israel. This Israel hate has been goin on for a while. Way before Bush even. So you can't blame him,(dam dam dam)
The crux of my point is... Giving or letting Iran get nukes is like giving the crazy kid at school, that threatens to come kill everyone there, a gun. Then you say you better not use it. But if you do its all Bushes fault.
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Post by zzZhenon on Dec 17, 2007 13:05:55 GMT -5
Don't be fooled by Iran. Reagan made them our enemies, they will not soon forget how he helped Saddam with intelligence to invade their country. The Mahmud A. guy is extremely dangerous. He knows how to twist words with ease, he's cunning, intelligent, and should not be underestimated.
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marr
Worker
Posts: 169
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Post by marr on Dec 17, 2007 13:10:49 GMT -5
I am not advocating anything. What I am saying is Iran has the right to make Nuclear Reactors if they have or have aquired the technology to do so. Russia has sold them the core reactors, so I am guess Russia is helping them build it or giving them the plans to do so.
What they do with those reactors is up to them.
Iran is allowed to have nuclear weapons. Iran is allowed to have a nuclear facility. What you say or believe doesn't matter. If your a leader of a nation, its your perogative to trade with any country you choose. Thats the bottom line whether you like it or not.
If America doesn't like Iran having a nuclear facility then declare war on them. Pretty simple, Isreal sure will with Americas weapons. Don't try to put your rhetoric on me however justifying the action as I won't credit such a war because there is no base for it. Oh, unless you consider that Iran has a large population base of whom many are Islamists.
TGS said:
"After all, Islam is the religion of peace."
Remember the crusades?
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Post by whiplash on Dec 17, 2007 13:15:54 GMT -5
If Iran completes its nuclear reactor, it won't be Iran who fires the first shot. That tells me something, probably something to you to. Guess we are just 'listening' to two different things. The reactor is not the major problem; it's the uranium enrichment facility. Iran claims that it wants to general fuel to run the reactor. The enrichment facility could be used for that, but it also could produce weapons grade U-235. One simply needs to continue the enrichment process for a longer period of time to accomplish that. Iran allows international inspection of the reactor, but not of the enrichment facility. Any guesses why? The whole notion that Iran needs nuclear power to generate electricity is a thinly veiled joke. The country has huge oil reserves that could be used for electicity generations. All they need is a refinery. There is no refinery in Iran; they export crude oil but import gasoline and other refined products. If Iran really wanted "energy for the People" what would make more economic sense: Make uranium fuel? , or Build a petroleum refinery? The former is hugely expensive and requires clandestine help from offshore to develope and operate the required technology. The latter is a mature technology that can be obtained easily and legally in the international marketplace. Haliburton would be quite pleased to build a refiner in Iran.
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capitalistpig
Settler
Those trying to save you from 1984 are leading you into a brave new world.
Posts: 51
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Post by capitalistpig on Dec 17, 2007 13:30:28 GMT -5
I'd like to recommend a book to you Marr.
The Politically Incorrect Guide to Islam and the Crusades authored by Robert Spencer.
You may just learn that the Crusades were not an aggressive conflict launched by evil Christianity to knock down uppity Islam.
Your a fool if you believe that people who have specifically stated that they intend to kill millions of people should not be prevented from acquiring the weapons that will make this possible.
Do you believe people should have to undergo background checks before they are allowed to purchase a firearm??? Why should we not prevent dangerous nations from acquiring the means to do great harm, in the same way we prevent ex cons and mentally ill people from owning firearms. Especially when they have specifically stated their intention to do so.
Lastly, Iran's "destroy Isreal" rhetoric did not start only recently. It has been going on ever since the overthrow of the Shaw. Where are you getting your talking points, Al Jazeera??
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Post by whiplash on Dec 17, 2007 13:31:25 GMT -5
Founded in 1953 and used by the Shah of Iran to try to eradicate followers of the Bahai faith, the Hojjatieh Society is governed by the conviction that the 12th Imam's return will be hastened by the creation of chaos on earth. Ahmadinejad, who is only the second non-cleric to become president since the revolution, has made clear his immense respect for Ayatollah Mohammad Taghi Mesbah-Yazdi, a deeply conservative cleric with close ties to the Hojjatieh-founded Haqqani theological school in Qom. www.iranian.ws/cgi-bin/iran_news/exec/view.cgi/13/10945For those unacquainted with the more obscure tenets of Islamic theology, the 12th Imam is held by devout Shi'ite Muslims to be a direct descendant of the Prophet Mohammed who went into "occlusion" in the ninth century at the age of five and hasn't been seen since. The Hidden Imam, as he is also known by his followers, will only return after a period of cosmic chaos, war and bloodshed – what Christians call the Apocalypse – and then lead the world into an era of universal peace. Rumours abound of Mr Ahmadinejad's devotion to the 12th Imam, and last year it was reported that he had persuaded his cabinet to sign a "contract" pledging themselves to work for his return. www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jhtml?xml=/opinion/2007/09/28/do2804.xml
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marr
Worker
Posts: 169
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Post by marr on Dec 17, 2007 13:34:30 GMT -5
Canada doesn't have a Refinery and we are fourth in the world for Oil. Canada also has nuclear reactors. Why do we need nuclear reactors if we have oil by the tons to generate electricty? I imagine its for the same reason whip as Irans. Profit! Ahhh but now we come to the title of the thread:D History briefing or what your saying whip: Here is a report from 2003 www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/world/iran/nuke-fac.htm"There remain significant such open question related to Iran's enrichment program. The 26 August 2003 IAEA report provides information making clear Iran has consistently misled the Agency about its enrichment program. First, as paragraph 30 reveals, Iran's centrifuge enrichment program did not begin in 1997, as Iran initially told the Agency, but in 1985, i.e., almost 20 year ago. Second, Iran's centrifuge program is not entirely indigenous, as Iran initially told the Agency and as AEOI President Agazadeh assured an informal meeting of the IAEA Board on 06 May 2003. Iran later said it received centrifuge drawings in 1987 from a still unnamed foreign intermediary and, in addition, Iran said it imported components for centrifuges and a cascade design. Third, the Kalaye Electric Company -- which Iran originally told the IAEA only produced centrifuge components -- now is said to have been a central part of its centrifuge testing program for five years (1997-2002); but Iran still claims, implausibly, that it never introduced nuclear material into centrifuges. " A report from 2007 December 4 www.iaea.org/NewsCenter/Focus/IaeaIran/index.shtml4 December 2007 | IAEA Director General Mohamed ElBaradei received with great interest the new U.S. National Intelligence Estimate about Iran´s nuclear program which concludes that there has been no on-going nuclear weapons program in Iran since the fall of 2003. He notes in particular that the Estimate tallies with the Agency´s consistent statements over the last few years that, although Iran still needs to clarify some important aspects of its past and present nuclear activities, the Agency has no concrete evidence of an ongoing nuclear weapons program or undeclared nuclear facilities in Iran
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Post by whiplash on Dec 17, 2007 13:44:15 GMT -5
The US also had no "concrete evidence" that the Soviet Union was working on a space program until Sputnik went up.
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marr
Worker
Posts: 169
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Post by marr on Dec 17, 2007 13:49:02 GMT -5
CapotilistPig said:
"Do you believe people should have to undergo background checks before they are allowed to purchase a firearm??? Why should we not prevent dangerous nations from acquiring the means to do great harm, in the same way we prevent ex cons and mentally ill people from owning firearms. Especially when they have specifically stated their intention to do so."
The thing is Cap, your suggesting that a few nations police the world. The thing with that is, the police need a set of laws inwhich to police. Last I looked those laws come from the UN not from America, not based upon Democracy but upon a charter of human rights.
Let the IAEA do its job and respect its findings, the more credit we give the UN, the more it becomes creditable. If we need to change the UN, lets change it, give it more fuctions, more power. But lets at least give it credibility.
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Post by whiplash on Dec 17, 2007 14:08:07 GMT -5
Yep, just like the UN kept North Korea from obtaining nuclear capability.
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