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Post by alice on Jul 20, 2006 13:50:00 GMT -5
what ya think the chances that with the growing nuclear technology throughout the world that israel may be hit ?
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Post by ironclad on Jul 20, 2006 13:55:02 GMT -5
it can't be that hard to get ur hands on a nuke
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Post by whiplash on Jul 20, 2006 14:12:15 GMT -5
Some countries want nukes not so that they can use them; but to be able to threaten to use them.
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Post by Bantams on Jul 20, 2006 14:58:19 GMT -5
Irael wont get nuked due to the fact you cant pick it as a civ ;D
no seriously though they wont be nuked to many americans wont let that happen
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Post by tamijo on Jul 21, 2006 1:13:00 GMT -5
voted yes, cos anything is possible in these unfutunate times.
Guess it could as well be London, Copenhagen or Cairo, any crazy bastard with too much money can get his hands on terrible weapons these days.
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Post by Elledge on Jul 21, 2006 3:37:02 GMT -5
I'd like to point out that Israel is the one with the nukes in the region
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Post by tommynt on Jul 21, 2006 4:14:48 GMT -5
maybe they nuke themself? so many nuts people down there - whos knows what happens - they wont be nuked by palestinieans for sure as they soon ll all be dead - some bad genuzid is happening down there
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Post by notagoodname on Jul 23, 2006 2:10:54 GMT -5
I feel that Israel is the more likely to do the nuking than any other country. I see the whole current conflict as similar to genocide that has happened in the past. "On April 22, 1996, four attacks on Serbian civilians and security personnel were carried out virtually simultaneously in several parts of Kosovo. A hitherto unknown organization calling itself the "Kosovo Liberation Army" (KLA) subsequently claimed responsibility... Finally, in September, a determined effort was made to clear the KLA out of the northern and central parts of Kosovo and out of the Drenica valley itself." en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kosovo_WarInstead of Serbians fighting KLA without regard to civilians we have Israelis fighting Hezbollah without regards to civilians.
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Post by ajerzguy on Jul 23, 2006 11:42:54 GMT -5
Israel will not be nuked. How many nukes do you think they can procure, 10 maybe? Israels answer would be a counter strike, with a nuclear arsenal of between 100-200 warheads. Iran and Syria would become waste lands with no major cities standing. The Israelis will attack those that have the means to reach this objective. Besides, at this point they have nothing to lose. Israel will do what it has to do to survive. The poll question should have been "Will Israel use nukes"? I definitely think they would.
I'm a bit bewildered as to the references to "genocide". Genocide against whom?
I support Israel's right to exist as mandated by the UN. This is a War of survival the on going war that they have fought since their inception.
For those that question the Israeli tactics let me remind them that this is war. A war that is being fought by guerrilla's. The only visible participant is the Israeli army. All others are nondescript. Israel has never been the aggressor, although when necessary that have been pre-emptive. That's the secret to survival. Civilians are casualties of war. This becomes even more pronounced since the enemy combatants can't be targeted. I don't hear anyone questioning hezzbolah for not ceasing hostilities to end the loss of their people.
When you attack in Civ the population decreases. Do you stop attacking? I don't. But this is a game!!!!! Yeah a game that simulates reality!
All of this is ancillary anyway.
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Post by notagoodname on Jul 23, 2006 18:46:06 GMT -5
I'm a bit bewildered as to the references to "genocide". Genocide against whom? I support Israel's right to exist as mandated by the UN. This is a War of survival the on going war that they have fought since their inception. For those that question the Israeli tactics let me remind them that this is war. A war that is being fought by guerrilla's. The only visible participant is the Israeli army. All others are nondescript. Israel has never been the aggressor, although when necessary that have been pre-emptive. That's the secret to survival. Civilians are casualties of war. This becomes even more pronounced since the enemy combatants can't be targeted. I don't hear anyone questioning hezzbolah for not ceasing hostilities to end the loss of their people. Serious question, are the residential city blocks being flattened in Beirut owned by Hezbollah?
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Post by tamijo on Jul 25, 2006 4:43:24 GMT -5
Isreal US and the rest off western world (incl. russia), is calling every war they start a fight against terror, but as i saw a sign on my TV this morning, was is terror with a huge budget.
They want every "non western" nation to have no weapons off any value and at the same time thay develop more and more zhit themselve.
I can understand why a lot off poor people around this world do not like my white face.
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Post by whiplash on Jul 25, 2006 6:39:26 GMT -5
Tamjo,
I suppose you think the world would be a better place if every dinky country and every dinky movement had a huge modern arsenal.
PS: It would add to peoples' credibility if they learned to spell Israel.
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Post by tommynt on Jul 25, 2006 7:43:18 GMT -5
Israelies are killing like 10x more paleastiniens as they loose to terror attack - so they are 10x more devilish then terrorists
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Post by weaksauce on Jul 25, 2006 8:33:26 GMT -5
Israelies are killing like 10x more paleastiniens as they loose to terror attack - so they are 10x more devilish then terrorists war is hell, but a death count is not exactly the way to keep track of what is 'fair'. the entire southern region of lebanon has been taken control of by Syria/hezbollah. Syria assassinated the former prime minister of lebanon last year. now a syrian sponsored group (hezbollah) has invaded israel, kidnapped a couple soldiers and launched some rockets into israel's 3rd largest city. israel has always played pretty aggressively when it comes to diplomacy/war, but i can't see how they are wrong at all here. body count does not really mean much when you are talking about only a couple hundred people, while hundreds of thousands are displaced/threatened (ON BOTH SIDES). people at Intel Corp. are working out of bomb shelters in Haifa Israel becuz rockets are fallling all throughout town. Who can blame Israel for going into Lebanon and stopping it? this is lebanon's fault for not controlling their southern region. it is hezbollah's fault for doing this crap. they bring it on themselves... they think a suicide bomb or kidnapping is a method of diplomacy. but should this surprise anyone when Hezbollah's founding premise was to fight Israel? That was what Ayatollah Khomeini envisioned when he started it... fight Israel. One can only hope that a rational western view of diplomacy and accountability takes root in the middle east... or else we will eventually see some crazy maniac with nukes do what has been going on for 30+ years.... suicide bomb israel.... and btw tommy - Israel has killed Lebanese and Syrians, not palestinians. they are not the same (tho all arab)
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Post by whiplash on Jul 25, 2006 8:44:26 GMT -5
One can only hope that a rational western view of diplomacy and accountability takes root in the middle east... I don't see how this can happen.
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Post by ajerzguy on Jul 25, 2006 9:25:26 GMT -5
One can only hope that a rational western view of diplomacy and accountability takes root in the middle east... I don't see how this can happen. Whip is 100% correct. It is the mandate of the Islamic factions of hezbollah, hamas and the Iranians to destroy Israel. They have all declared their intentions. If anyone is naive enough to think these are only words, they are living in a dream world. The Islamist have promised genocide of the Jews starting with Israel. How different is the crisis in the Middle East from the months leading up to WW2? Germany only wanted what they claimed to be their lands. The Europeans (England, France, Russia) placated the German overtures and we all know what it fostered. Denial of what is in front of you does not alter it's path. Not all that is being shelled by Israel is controlled by hezbollah, however there have been many targets that are. The problem here is that few see that the fundamentalist followers of Islam have a far reaching agenda. That agenda is all of the Middle East. Do you actually think that once Israel collapses, then Lebanon, Afghanistan and Iraq that Jordan, Saudi Arabia and Kuwait aren't next? Think again for the Islamists all of this is their rightful lands. When Iran has the capability to build a nuclear weapon they will use them. Muslims have 1.5 billion followers. Recent history shows that they will not take a stand against the militants even when most of the casualties are their own. Think about it. Some of the richest countries in the world are in the Middle East including Saudi Arabia, Kuwait and yes Iraq and Iran. Because they don't spread the wealth among their citizens doesn't mean they are poor. The Islamist militants are the Nazis of the 30's and 40's and the Communists from the 50's to the 80's.
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Post by whiplash on Jul 25, 2006 9:32:33 GMT -5
Hossein Shariatmadari, editor of the conservative Iranian daily Kayhan, affiliated with Iran's Supreme Leader Ali Khamenei, called today (July 17, 2006) in his editorial to "wipe Israel off the map." He said: "There are many signs and portents indicating that 'the fateful day' is coming near. It is possible that this day... has already begun...
"The Muslim peoples and many other peoples think that, in global geopolitics, there is no such thing as the state of Israel, and that the [entity] which presently bears this name is a usurping and rootless state that has imposed its parasitic presence over the region and over Palestine with the support of the arrogant powers. [This entity] invents a new crime every day. It causes men, women, and innocent children to bleed to death, or else deports them from their homeland and turns them into refugees. In light of this 'problem,' which is perfectly obvious, the annihilation of the Zionist regime is not only a religious and national duty, but also a universal human duty, from which no Muslim or free human being can be exempt.
"Comprehensive support for Hamas and Hizbullah, political, logistically, militarily, and through sending combatant forces to this front are the minimal price that the Islamic countries must pay in order to maintain their own security and independence...
"The city of Haifa lies 35 kilometers [sic] from the Lebanese border, and the distance [from the Lebanese border] to Nazareth is about 50 kilometers. Tomorrow will come the turn of Herzliya, Natanya, and Tel Aviv... The Muslim peoples must not allow this conflict to remain within the boundaries of the region. The Zionists are dispersed in many places around the world, and it is not so difficult to locate and get [our] hands on them. The entire world can and must be made unsafe for the Zionists, [including] their political and commercial centers. This does not require the governments' approval... The fateful day may have begun, and fierce revenge on the barbaric Zionists is underway, Allah willing."
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Post by tommynt on Jul 25, 2006 19:25:01 GMT -5
quote:
bleh they kill every1 they see - they kill loads of paleastinians in Ganza strip - I dont think that their attack on Libanon si that bad - as they were atatcked by some organized type of army from there - but killing children with tanks in Gaza is really no excusable. Also they didnt dare to attack Syria untill now - as Syria in opposite to Libanon and Palestineans got a strong army.
They confilct down there got no easy solution but imo is the way Isreal goes to just kill everything they see the wrong way - rich people hardly do suicide attacks - maybe they should better counter poverty then building nukes and terror d stop.
nukes are no counter to terror - bread is imo
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Post by notagoodname on Jul 25, 2006 23:00:56 GMT -5
Whip is 100% correct. It is the mandate of the Islamic factions of hezbollah, hamas and the Iranians to destroy Israel. They have all declared their intentions. If anyone is naive enough to think these are only words, they are living in a dream world. The Islamist have promised genocide of the Jews starting with Israel. The Ideology of Hezbollah is stupid, but how can that possibly justify Israels attacking of non-Hezbollah targets when they are hurting civilians? By the way want to talk about stupid ideologies, check out this one from one of Israels founding forces. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lehi_%28group%291. THE NATION The Jewish people is a covenanted people, the originator of monotheism, formulator of the prophetic teachings, standard bearer of human culture, guardian of glorious patrimony. The Jewish people is schooled in self-sacrifice and suffering; its vision, survivability and faith in redemption are indestructible. 2. THE HOMELAND The homeland in the Land of Israel within the borders delineated in the Bible ("To your descendants, I shall give this land, from the River of Egypt to the great Euphrates River." Genesis 15:18) This is the land of the living, where the entire nation shall live in safety. 3. THE NATION AND ITS LAND Israel conquered the land with the sword. There it became a great nation and only there it will be reborn. Hence Israel alone has a right to that land. This is an absolute right. It has never expired and never will. 4. THE GOALS 1. Redemption of the land. 2. Establishment of sovereignty. 3. Revival of the nation. There is no sovereignty without the redemption of the land, and there is no national revival without sovereignty. These are the goals of the organization during the period of war and conquest: 5. EDUCATION Educate the nation to love freedom and zealously guard Israel's eternal patrimony. Inculcate the idea that the nation is master to its own fate. Revive the doctrine that "The sword and the book came bound together from heaven" (Midrash Vayikra Rabba 35:8) 6. UNITY The unification of the entire nation around the banner of the Hebrew freedom movement. The use of the genius, status and resources of individuals and the channeling of the energy, devotion and revolutionary fervour of the masses for the war of liberation. 7. PACTS Make pacts with all those who are willing to help the struggle of the organization and provide direct support. 8. FORCE Consolidate and increase the fighting force in the homeland and in the Diaspora, in the underground and in the barracks, to become the Hebrew army of liberation with its flag, arms, and commanders. 9. WAR Constant war against those who stand in the way of fulfilling the goals. 10. CONQUEST The conquest of the homeland from foreign rule and its eternal possession. These are the tasks of the movement during the period of sovereignty and redemption: 11. SOVEREIGNTY Renewal of Hebrew sovereignty over the redeemed land. 12. RULE OF JUSTICE The establishment of a social order in the spirit of Jewish morality and prophetic justice. Under such an order no one will go hungry or unemployed. All will live in harmony, mutual respect and friendship as an example to the world. 13. REVIVING THE WILDERNESS Build the ruins and revive the wilderness for mass immigration and population increase. 14. ALIENS Solve the problem of alien population by exchange of population. 15. INGATHERING OF THE EXILES Total in-gathering of the exiles to their sovereign state. 16. POWER The Hebrew nation shall become a first-rate military, political, cultural and economical entity in the Middle East and around the Mediterranean Sea. 17. REVIVAL The revival of the Hebrew language as a spoken language by the entire nation, the renewal of the historical and spiritual might of Israel. The purification of the national character in the fire of revival. 18. THE TEMPLE The building of the Third Temple as a symbol of the new era of total redemption. Note from that ideology that point 18 implies the destruction of one of Islams holiest sites en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temple_Mount_and_Eretz_Yisrael_Faithful_Movement
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Post by whiplash on Jul 26, 2006 6:59:29 GMT -5
I don't see that as "stupid"; I see it as "resolve". One must consider that these were formulated in 1948 when the Jews were starting off with virtually nothing.
Point #18 is no longer a popular idea; but the few that do adhere to it suggest that the shrine be relocated. There is no historical evidence that suggests that Mohammad ascended from Jerusalem anyway and the shrine was built at that location in the 7th century probably just to anger the Jews.
There is solid proof, however, that this is the site of the original Temple of Solomon. So once again, the historical record and evidence support the position of the Jews; while the positions of the Muslims are often just "because the Mulah says so".
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