Post by willburn on Dec 4, 2007 10:39:49 GMT -5
Drill gives you chances for extra first strikes (1 and 3) and extra first strikes (2 and 4 drill promotion) while also allowing you less collateral damage. (just a bonus imho.) So this thread then looks at when first strikes comes to its worth. The simple answer is: When your unit is more powerfull than the other unit first strikes are a good option. The less so simple answer also notes that first strikes are better than combat 1 when you are equal in strenght. (but not so if not.) Other situations where first strikes shine is when 2 weak units try to attack you in the hope of the first wounding you enough that the 2nd will kill. (chariots come to mind..) again here first strikes shine.
So what does this imply for ladder play? Here are some examples:
The archer: This guy really benifits from first strikes on defence. Especially in large fights where you need units to survive with high hp left. The reason the archer works is he has high strenght due to bonuses from terrain and city. So he works as a unit with higher strenght than what he is facing and then first strikes are awesome. The same can be said of an archer chocking on a hill + forest. That guy is very risky to strike. (especially 2 drill archer) as you might risk him not dying to 2 units. Ofcourse if this is true for the archer than its even more true for the mali skirmisher. (Who i would allmost allways recommend doing first strike. Heck its even good on offence when using skirmisher.)
Catapult: The catapult usually suicides on the enemy for collateral damage so i couldnt recommend using first strikes on it. Ofcourse there are situations where this holds true (anyone worth theyre salt in civ knows to adapt to situations.), for example if you in the weird situation of defending vs chariots to protect your land (f.ex a copper resource), in this case the higher strenght of the catapult than the chariot makes the catapult a good candidate for first strikes. And its more efficient than combat 1.
Longbow: If this guy is facing stuff like catapults, swordsmen, chariots etc then first strike will be very very good. I would consider taking it over city promotions. If your opponent is using a stack of Horse archers (or war chariots who gets immune to first strike) then ofcourse dont use drill promotions. And if you are facing knights city promotions is the way to go i think. If your using the longbow for chocking / scouting on forest plain, then first strikes are pretty good. Especially if your enemy is using chatapracts who doesnt get immune to first strikes. Your opponent risks loosing 2-3 units for nothing. I know for sure I allways hesitate attacking a longbow with first strikes higly fortified on good defensive terrain. (unless I have knights)
Also note that the mongol horse archer isnt immune to first strikes so vs it its actually quite good to go first strikes.
Finaly an example from more modern times:
The tank is extremly good with first strikes, this guy can attack and be allmost not wounded at all and attack again. Blitz + first strikes is a deadly combo!
Now I hope others have oppinions on this matter so I leave you with some articles on the subject and hope someone else has oppinions on this and will discuss it here. One of the most true statements one can make is that there is allways something new to learn, so I hope to learn from you guys too
Articles used for this post:
Tactical Advantages of the Drill Promotion?
forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=237519
Drill promotion
forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=199519
How do first strikes work? Are they good?
forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=190772
Benefits of First Strike
forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=178087
Combat Explained....
forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=137615
So what does this imply for ladder play? Here are some examples:
The archer: This guy really benifits from first strikes on defence. Especially in large fights where you need units to survive with high hp left. The reason the archer works is he has high strenght due to bonuses from terrain and city. So he works as a unit with higher strenght than what he is facing and then first strikes are awesome. The same can be said of an archer chocking on a hill + forest. That guy is very risky to strike. (especially 2 drill archer) as you might risk him not dying to 2 units. Ofcourse if this is true for the archer than its even more true for the mali skirmisher. (Who i would allmost allways recommend doing first strike. Heck its even good on offence when using skirmisher.)
Catapult: The catapult usually suicides on the enemy for collateral damage so i couldnt recommend using first strikes on it. Ofcourse there are situations where this holds true (anyone worth theyre salt in civ knows to adapt to situations.), for example if you in the weird situation of defending vs chariots to protect your land (f.ex a copper resource), in this case the higher strenght of the catapult than the chariot makes the catapult a good candidate for first strikes. And its more efficient than combat 1.
Longbow: If this guy is facing stuff like catapults, swordsmen, chariots etc then first strike will be very very good. I would consider taking it over city promotions. If your opponent is using a stack of Horse archers (or war chariots who gets immune to first strike) then ofcourse dont use drill promotions. And if you are facing knights city promotions is the way to go i think. If your using the longbow for chocking / scouting on forest plain, then first strikes are pretty good. Especially if your enemy is using chatapracts who doesnt get immune to first strikes. Your opponent risks loosing 2-3 units for nothing. I know for sure I allways hesitate attacking a longbow with first strikes higly fortified on good defensive terrain. (unless I have knights)
Also note that the mongol horse archer isnt immune to first strikes so vs it its actually quite good to go first strikes.
Finaly an example from more modern times:
The tank is extremly good with first strikes, this guy can attack and be allmost not wounded at all and attack again. Blitz + first strikes is a deadly combo!
Now I hope others have oppinions on this matter so I leave you with some articles on the subject and hope someone else has oppinions on this and will discuss it here. One of the most true statements one can make is that there is allways something new to learn, so I hope to learn from you guys too
Articles used for this post:
Tactical Advantages of the Drill Promotion?
forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=237519
Drill promotion
forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=199519
How do first strikes work? Are they good?
forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=190772
Benefits of First Strike
forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=178087
Combat Explained....
forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=137615