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Post by MookieNJ on Apr 1, 2007 20:48:58 GMT -5
Due to increasing CCC activity and the desire to mix in new events, the CCC at times is laggier than a 5v5 teamer. There seem to be far too many 6 hour games and 14 hour events. However, this rarely seems to be a problem on Sundays when only 8 clans are competing. Therefore I suggest holding two simultaneous CCCs -- one featuring the top 8 clans from the previous CCC, the second played by all remaining clans allowing up to 8 more clans to register. Because it's Opening Day, in honor of baseball I will call them the Major League and the Minor League . Finally, after the first CCC played under these rules, the top 6 clans in the Major League remain there, while the bottom two are bumped to the Minor League and replaced by the top two finishers from the Minor League. Just like baseball, the winner of the Major League CCC would be crowned CCC champion, while the purpose of the Minor League would be to practice, train, and make it to the big time. Advantages: * With only 3 rounds per event, all events should take less time to complete. * The Cton, OCC Semi-Cton, and Ironman could all be played without preliminary rounds. * With only 8 clans per division, there should be fewer byes, which means less waiting around to play your first game. * With a Major League, the more competitive clans will get to face off against each other, thus eliminating wacky brackets generated by random seeding. * With a Minor League, the less competitive clans will not get stuck playing the top clans in the first round and will have more of an opportunity to advance deeper into tournaments and gain valuable experience. * Works with the already made suggestion of having a CCC play in, however it's all done at once so you are effectively "playing in" for the next CCC, whether you are in the Minor League or the Major League. Disadvantages: * Segregates the C4P community. * Negative connotation that could be associated with the Minor League. * Could be discouraging to clans in the Minor Leagues -- however, would it be any more discouraging than showing up for the CCC and scoring zero points? * With only 8 clans per CCC, any clan missing an event will result in a bye giving free points to a team. * Two simultaneously run CCCs could get confusing for the Admins and TDs, but as long as they are clones of one another it might not be too bad. ... In the end, I'm not sure if this is a great idea or not. I like the idea of a faster, more smoothly run CCC. However I would miss playing all of the different clans. With the idea of playing into the CCC, this suggestion would incorporate that without having to add an extra weekend of games.
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Post by deviousdevil on Apr 1, 2007 22:15:04 GMT -5
I always enjoy my once a CCC game against KC.
It does have merit this idea, though the main issue I see is if clans don't see themselves as minor league, who'll be put down in minor league and who won't.
RaY for minor league imho.
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Post by MookieNJ on Apr 1, 2007 23:07:26 GMT -5
I always enjoy my once a CCC game against KC. It does have merit this idea, though the main issue I see is if clans don't see themselves as minor league, who'll be put down in minor league and who won't. I agree completely, and that's why I'm not sure if it would work. Who really wants to play in the Minor League? But at the same time, how much fun can it be to score 0 points and be one and done in every event? I would think that the less competitive teams would have more fun and learn more too by getting to play more games together rather than so many early exits. Also, the Major League would consist of the top 6 scorers from the last Major CCC as well as the top 2 scorers from the last Minor CCC. If you want to stay with the big boys and girls, you gotta score points! In the end, I just don't know if it would work, but I figured it was worth throwing it out to be debated .
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Post by mansurji on Apr 2, 2007 0:31:23 GMT -5
at first i've been surprised of this, but i do think it's an interesting idea The major point is delaying the waiting and the lag of every game, which is a good idea. The 2nd point is getting more even games, which should be interesting too, even if for high levels teams, games always got even once in semi. But this way weaker teams will be able to move to semi too and to enjoy the excitement of a CCC working. The real matter i see is the lost of motivation for the 2 teams moving back to minor league, that will have to play next CCC under their level ( in their opinion ) which might lead to a loss of interest... But on otherside, the 2 teams moving to major will know a lot of excitement and should train hard for knowing what is waiting them, which is good for a clan... I don't know, it might works, need a debates for sure Thanks for submitting the idea
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Post by DrShot on Apr 2, 2007 0:39:41 GMT -5
Make more events, more times. Add no new days!
Make each team register for events by (thursday) deadline.
There are 15 events(example) only 12 ( or 10 or whatever, but less than 100% of events)events allowed per team.
The teams with the most points in last CCC get priority(ie, ealry registeration-pre registeration)
This may leave gaps or events without a "full" set of clans to participate: good! now there is strategy in determining what to play, who and when! This makes a Clan stand out even more, especially their leadership.
Player limits, remove them, if a clan wants to play Joe Shmo every event, great, this aint grade school where the fat kid(cmdishr) needs to get guarenteed play time!
Take this as a outline for a new direction, mold this into a new way to bring back the glory(not that it is gone) into the CCC!
More clans? Great!
When setting up the events, allow only so many spots to eliminate BYES. BYES seem to be the burden of the CCC lately.
If there are 8 spaces you better choose the events you want wisely and have enough standing(points in last CCC) to get into the Prequalifier signups to be asured of the events you desire.
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Post by everybodysdarling on Apr 2, 2007 7:26:49 GMT -5
i like mookies idea. may any admin or td tell us if it is possible to organize 2 identical clones of a ccc simultanlously?
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Post by Tony on Apr 2, 2007 7:40:14 GMT -5
the minor league one will be a mess, trsut me on this. Some clans will not bother showing up for events, once you know you not going to get premoted youll lose interest, etc etc.
How about extending the ccc to 20 events over 2 weekends and make it every 8 weeks rather then 6.
10 events over 3 days is alot easier to swollow? This could allow smaller clans to be competitive and sceduling a nice time for all is alot easier, not many will have to stay up all night.
But i think limiting how many events anyone player can play is a good thing.
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moineau
Warrior
Administrator
Posts: 330
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Post by moineau on Apr 2, 2007 8:50:01 GMT -5
Again if small clan have problems to be competitive, they need to recruit. That is a clan world cup, not a 3 guys world cup.
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Post by MMV on Apr 2, 2007 9:01:32 GMT -5
I believe this already exists with the final day of the CCC when only the top 8 clans get to play.
the seperation of the major and the minor.
a league already exist - MyLeague and it's major league.
minor issues should remain minor.
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Post by venceslas on Apr 2, 2007 11:39:03 GMT -5
At first, I was thinking it was a good idea. But finally, it's just one or two events in the satuday day which have this problem.
Is it really necessary to make a such deeper changement for one or two events longer than others? With a well dimensionned roster and a good organization there is no problem to manage this kind of situation I think.
CCC is a collective event, if every event is played by the same players, I'm not sure that CCC will be also fun.
chris.
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Juni
Worker
Posts: 137
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Post by Juni on Apr 2, 2007 13:49:14 GMT -5
This is a very interesting idea. It is hard to say if it would be good or not, because it is really different from what is done now. If admins think it's possible to organise it, we could try if for 3 months, and then make a poll to vote for keeping it or switching back to previous system.
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Post by charliebrownparker on Apr 2, 2007 13:54:12 GMT -5
Mookie there's a copyright on this idea ;D : civ4players.proboards44.com/index.cgi?board=ccc&action=display&thread=1171133896&page=6As you can read i cannot disagree this proposal. It's a good opportunity for "minor" (i hate this word) clan to improve their skils and play more team games too. Creating tourney web pages is very easy. Creating a league on Myleague and allowing TD rights is much more easier. 8 clans ==> Two TDs per clan ==>16 TDs ==> we can run 16 events on 3 days without any problem. Being TD is not reserved to elite players or admins
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redphoenix
Warrior
CCCAC Representative
Posts: 253
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Post by redphoenix on Apr 2, 2007 14:28:35 GMT -5
I like drshots way of thinking more. Add more events to CCC at varying times. Make it so that say there are 20 events, a clan can take part in 16. Or if its a 2day then final day, then say 15 events on first 2 days, a clan can take part in 12? All final day clans can take part. Or I'd really like to see a return to the playoff style we had in civ3 though. Would be nice A series of 3 games say. 1 in anc, 1 in class/medi 1 in rene/indu/modern. Could be randomized a bit(the eras). Maybe the finals could be a best of 5
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Post by whitebull on Apr 2, 2007 15:07:37 GMT -5
For low level clans (as the one I belong to ) It's very important to face to clans like GOD, RAY or SD2R (French clans too, but we could train with them ). Not only in order to become better (I am not sure we wanna work ;D ) but for the fun of playing best players in the world. I fully respect KC, STYX and others, but I will be less enjoy by a competition without best clans playing.
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Post by churchill1 on Apr 2, 2007 15:13:02 GMT -5
Haven't read the whole thread, but I like the general idea too. May be you could call it something other than a minor league, doublespeak FTW ;D.
Axius is dead right (see below). WTF is with 'minor league' in any case - that really is humiliating.
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axius
Warrior
CCCAC Representative
Posts: 220
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Post by axius on Apr 2, 2007 15:29:05 GMT -5
I like Mookie's idea. Events taking way too long is a problem. Almost half of the clans never getting to experience the events scheduled for Sunday is another problem. Everybody knows that there is a huge difference in team strengths across the board. When the strongest team plays the weakest - that's a waste fo time for everybody, as the outcome is 99.9% known. In all sports there are divisions/leagues, and for a good reason. As a member of a small clan I see nothing humiliating in playing in the 2nd division. If our clan grows stronger we'll naturally move up by winning games. Perhaps don't use the baseball terminology which has those negative connotations. Come up with a more neutral name. Division A and Divison B, or whatever.
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Post by MookieNJ on Apr 2, 2007 15:35:40 GMT -5
WTF is with 'minor league' in any case - that really is humiliating. If you read the first post, it was in honor of baseball's opening day ... perhaps I should have gone with the American League and the National League .
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Post by churchill1 on Apr 2, 2007 15:49:46 GMT -5
KK sorry I didn't read it all
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Post by MookieNJ on Apr 2, 2007 16:07:53 GMT -5
Some numbers to think about:
For the second CCC in a row, 16 clans registered.
For the 6 events held on Friday and Saturday that are run with Case's software:
13/16 clans particpated in the 1v1 11/16 clans particpated in the Future 12/16 clans particpated in the Industrial 12/16 clans particpated in the Ancient 12/16 clans particpated in the Renaissance 10/16 clans particpated in the Modern
That's a total of 26 missing teams leading to an inordinate number of byes and waiting around. That's only 73% participation. The biggest culprits here were STYX and MCC, both of which missed 5 out of 6 of these events.
On Sunday there are 4 more teamers restricted to the top 8 clans after the first two days, and 2 of these teamers were missing the ..A.. clan which resulted in more byes and waiting around.
To me, the biggest question that must be answered is why are so many clans missing so many events?
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Post by Death to ALL on Apr 2, 2007 16:20:50 GMT -5
I think the answer to that is that we have a lot of new little clans. They are unorganized, no offense it takes time to make a good work team.
What may be needed is to increase the min number of players, but not sure that will help as people will just put names on the list that never play just to make the cut.
As to the split CCC idea what happens when we go over 16 clans? We are heading there and this system doesn't address that issue. IMO any new approach will have to take into account increasing the number of clans over 16.
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