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Post by everybodysdarling on Feb 19, 2007 17:25:14 GMT -5
The spy exploit is uncontrollable, when several players keep spys in enemy cities. In my last (ccc) occ cton my units were expelled from the enemy land becuase a third party spy (so not even the defender) kept a spy in that city. - This cannot be considered fair game, we had to reload.
The simplest way to avoid this in future CCCs is to ban spy at all. - I do not see any other way to solve this.
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Post by Lestat on Feb 19, 2007 17:28:30 GMT -5
The spy exploit is uncontrollable, when several players keep spys in enemy cities. In my last (ccc) occ cton my units were expelled from the enemy land becuase a third party spy (so not even the defender) kept a spy in that city. - This cannot be considered fair game, we had to reload. The simplest way to avoid this in future CCCs is to ban spy at all. - I do not see any other way to solve this. Omg noob ebd. If third party hold spy in second enemie cite that spy cant eject your units. But wot was hapened hipoteticaly : third wumy move spy 2 squares of second enemies cite, ebd wumy move stack on that spy (he cant see spy). in next turn ebd army was ejected. If maybe wumy with spy sow after ebd move that army on spy he can eventualy delete hes spy to avoid exploit. yes no nukes,no internet, no spy
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Post by balmung on Feb 19, 2007 17:36:35 GMT -5
To make it easy, that was the situation:
In an CCC game i had a spy in an enemy territory to check his city cause he build a lot of units. Thy spy was south of that city in foreign territory. This city was attacked from north - west by a third party who lost most of his units but moved with the rest for me unexpected in southern direction on my spy and was, so he told, moved back on his former place ( not out of territory). He said i used spy exploid and wanted a reload before that situation and proposed i should destroy my spy. We gave him a reload.
Point is rules says " used to eject enemy units from your territory, " what i defenitly didnt do. I didnt use the spy (he was there 30 turns or more for investigating my neighbour) and i didnt eject someone out of my territory .
Was a rehost necessary cause it gave an advantage to one party ? "Spys may not be used to eject enemy units from your territory, nor used to hide the contents of units being transported."
This above mentioned rule needs some clarification.
I dont think that a ban makes sense.
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Post by everybodysdarling on Feb 19, 2007 17:51:40 GMT -5
so he told, moved back on his former place ( not out of territory). Point is rules says " used to eject enemy units from your territory, " what i defenitly didnt do. I didnt use the spy (he was there 30 turns or more for investigating my neighbour) and i didnt eject someone out of my territory . You're wrong. 5 of my mechs which unknowing moved on your spy (on a tile next to the city) were expelled from the enemy territory. The 4 mechs you saw beside were units which were following my stack - they did not move on the tile where your spy was and were still within of the enemy territory. - They are not the units from the stack that attacked. Balmung honestly with your comment you dont make things easier to understand. It's difficult to recall and explain to somebody who cant see the whole map and my moves how the exact situation is. But trust me, if I tell you that my stack of units which at the end of the round was next to the enemy city, in the next round was moved away from the enemy land. And of course Balmung you did not move my units on purpose. I believe you, you had the spy next to the enemy city, sitting for 30 or more turns. - What I say is, that there is no difference to me whether the spy exploit occurs on purpose or not. It is not fair play and cannot be controlled in other way than to ban spys from those OCC Ctons.
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Post by balmung on Feb 19, 2007 18:00:32 GMT -5
excepted, i realy didnt saw this 5 units saw only the destroyed stack. They must have moved around the city.
And honestly i wasnt aware since today that a spy in foreign territory could move units out of that territory. Maybe noobish.
That for sure doesnt work with units of territory ;D
Your points is: your claiming the right of attcking a city, thats fair
My point is: did i have the same right and checking neighbour city with a spy ? Especially when i was there first ?
The problem will be always that you cant see the spy thats true
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Post by Lestat on Feb 19, 2007 18:23:26 GMT -5
hhmmm i dont kno if second party spy can eject enmies from third party land. If it can its bug but we must test it. If thet spy cant move enemies its mean only land over spy can do it and atacked player dont told truth in ccc.
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Post by everybodysdarling on Feb 19, 2007 18:54:08 GMT -5
lestat honey, I tell you it has happened to me for the 2nd time. And it is sad truth.
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Post by balmung on Feb 19, 2007 19:03:05 GMT -5
a solution might be putting spys only in cities and not close to them.
Means if you destroy a city you cant be thrown out of territory next turn ;D
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Post by Bantams on Feb 19, 2007 19:07:22 GMT -5
EBD get over it game over see you next CCC
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Post by MookieNJ on Feb 19, 2007 22:27:06 GMT -5
From another viewpoint, considering Spies have no counter I would be all for banning them. There is absolutely no way to stop a player from putting a Spy on your Oil (or any other resource) and pillaging it every turn with 1 second left. You'll never be able to build any decent units and be competitive.
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Audrien
Settler
Administrator
Posts: 74
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Post by Audrien on Feb 19, 2007 22:43:20 GMT -5
Why would you ban spies???
What are we banning next?
Sure it is a bug, and they need to fix that. But i think there will be a patch out soon, if not, they gonna fix it in the next expansion.
It is part of the game! We already banned nukes! AND Internet as well .... Banning spies would take fun out of this era.
Using a spy to pillage oil might be a good idea for a couple of turns, but honestly ... if your opponents are doing it, you are able to do it as well. So you argument, Mookie, isnt that great. You can pillage oil with Stealth Bombers as well at 1 second left. Are we gonna ban them now?
This spy bug really need to be fixed. I suggest that a spy should only be used to put in enemy city. And if outside that city and the exploit happens, you gotta reload and tell to remove that spy. I dont think there is a better way to fix this problem right now. Banning spies doesnt help, especially since you cant control that bann anyway. We will never know if someone is using a spy although its banned ...
My suggestion: Carry on ... get over it!
-Tobey-
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Post by MookieNJ on Feb 19, 2007 22:52:18 GMT -5
Using a spy to pillage oil might be a good idea for a couple of turns, but honestly ... if your opponents are doing it, you are able to do it as well. So you argument, Mookie, isnt that great. I know both teams can do it, but it's still cheesy and not very much fun.
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Post by Gogf on Feb 19, 2007 23:23:26 GMT -5
Both teams can also use Cossacks in renaissance, but that doesn't make them fun. Being able to sit a unit without a counter on a strategic resource and pillage it with one second left every turn is not fun. I would be all for spies being banned, at least from everything but intelligence-gathering.
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Post by Bantams on Feb 20, 2007 9:49:28 GMT -5
Maybe Next xp will fix Spy bugs or give us some cool SuperSpys like 007 ;D But I dont think Spys should be banned I like scouting and destroying My Neighbours Oil Wells Its funny when mans shouts WTF Which one of you Woumans Did that ;D
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Post by Lestat on Feb 20, 2007 10:20:51 GMT -5
Maybe Next xp will fix Spy bugs or give us some cool SuperSpys like 007 ;D But I dont think Spys should be banned I like scouting and destroying My Neighbours Oil Wells Its funny when mans shouts WTF Which one of you Woumans Did that ;D Dont lie wumy ! U was ded or u quit before u got spy's.
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Post by cankaban on Feb 20, 2007 11:23:29 GMT -5
we will soon ban occ games..banning internet and nukes killed the game but you still continue banning,guys lets make the games always peace and make just farms..!
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Post by balmung on Feb 20, 2007 12:17:07 GMT -5
he BitchieBitch, this time i am with you ;D enough banned for now not all power to farms ;D
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Post by everybodysdarling on Feb 20, 2007 13:03:09 GMT -5
Why would you ban spies??? Sure it is a bug, and they need to fix that. But i think there will be a patch out soon, if not, they gonna fix it in the next expansion. Untill the spy bug is not fixed, spies have to be banned. There is no fair play possible with spies and this bug. Banning the internet on the other hand is just an option. There is no internet bug and in the next CCC we may "un-ban" it.
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Post by longhorn on Feb 21, 2007 10:04:37 GMT -5
Thought I would weigh in on my perspective of the issue... not being one for bannings in general, I think banning nukes, internet, cossacks etc is pretty darn lame. That being said, I fully support BANNING SPIES until the exploit is patched. It is too uncontrollable, especially given the revelation of 3rd party ejections. @balmung - IMO you did not violate any rules-- however, the SPY BUG did influence the game, and I see nothing wrong with the decision that was made to reload. My only question is whether or not the decison was made by a tournament director (TD). @mookie - build on oil -- problem solved -lh
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Post by balmung on Feb 21, 2007 12:58:54 GMT -5
longhorn the players decided, there was no TD in lobby. And there was the normal shouting of players in lobby not involved in game that i used spy exploit knowing nothing about the situation.
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