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Post by emperorpenguin25 on Feb 19, 2007 19:35:43 GMT -5
I have a question for you why do you have the whole damn CCC chat on record?
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Post by Gogf on Feb 19, 2007 19:38:23 GMT -5
Is it fair play to try to get your opponents—who are winning—disqualified if they take two minutes longer than they should to sub? I don't think so. I agree with Mookie: the CCC should be a fair, gentlemanly competition. I don't want to win because the other team took a minute or so too long to sub their player. I want to have a good time, enjoy playing with my friends, and try to engage in a fair competition. If someone needs a little extra time, it's almost always fine with me if they take it .
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Post by emperorpenguin25 on Feb 19, 2007 21:11:58 GMT -5
Rules are rules. there are no if ands or buts. look at the olympics should you win if they have a flawless preformance except they fall once?
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Post by Gogf on Feb 19, 2007 23:32:05 GMT -5
Rules are rules. there are no if ands or buts. look at the olympics should you win if they have a flawless preformance except they fall once? That's a bad analogy. A better question is, should a team be disqualified from the Olympics if they take too long to remove their injured player from the field? The point is that there's no reason to turn this into a "battle of the technicalities." If someone needs an extra two minutes, is it really worth it to demand that they be disqualified? That rule is there to keep people from wasting everybody's time, not to allow teams to win games they had no prospect of victory in based solely on a technicality. Although I suppose the admins and tournament directors would have to disqualify you for subbing in too slowly (which DIDN'T happen here), I don't think it's very good sportsmanship to complain about a couple of extra minutes, especially with the current connection issues. I, for one, would not feel good about winning the CCC because a rival clan took a couple minutes too long to sub in a player.
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Post by NumberOneMercury on Feb 20, 2007 0:00:12 GMT -5
I think it's kind of funny that the RaY people are acting up on "fair play" given they won a CCC on an arbitrary award of points. If they lost that space race game (as the game in fact registered), they would have lost that CCC two back.
After this they gave no credit to the other clan that might have won, accepting a unilateral award of points by a TD they did not earn. In fact, they proceeded to make games with such titles as "Ladder Teamer pw ccc champs."
I realize that most of the RaY team is around high school age, but still I expected better. I do however expect that they will appreciate the logical connection.
That said, I agree with the RaY folk that I wouldn't DQ a team on a technicality. Just like in that CCC I would have had the decency to propose to my clan to offer to share the title were we the ones to benefit.
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Post by deviousdevil on Feb 20, 2007 0:42:31 GMT -5
I think it's kind of funny that the RaY people are acting up on "fair play" given they won a CCC on an arbitrary award of points. If they lost that space race game (as the game in fact registered), they would have lost that CCC two back. After this they gave no credit to the other clan that might have won, accepting a unilateral award of points by a TD they did not earn. In fact, they proceeded to make games with such titles as "Ladder Teamer pw ccc champs." I realize that most of the RaY team is around high school age, but still I expected better. I do however expect that they will appreciate the logical connection. That said, I agree with the RaY folk that I wouldn't DQ a team on a technicality. Just like in that CCC I would have had the decency to propose to my clan to offer to share the title were we the ones to benefit. ? Someone explain this thread to me please.
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Post by MookieNJ on Feb 20, 2007 0:50:01 GMT -5
I think it's kind of funny that the RaY people are acting up on "fair play" given they won a CCC on an arbitrary award of points. If they lost that space race game (as the game in fact registered), they would have lost that CCC two back. After this they gave no credit to the other clan that might have won, accepting a unilateral award of points by a TD they did not earn. In fact, they proceeded to make games with such titles as "Ladder Teamer pw ccc champs." I realize that most of the RaY team is around high school age, but still I expected better. I do however expect that they will appreciate the logical connection. That said, I agree with the RaY folk that I wouldn't DQ a team on a technicality. Just like in that CCC I would have had the decency to propose to my clan to offer to share the title were we the ones to benefit. Wow. Any respect I had for you is forever lost.
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Post by eiffel on Feb 20, 2007 1:54:36 GMT -5
Some new clans and/or new players don't get the CCC spirit yet. No doubt they will understand what it is and that you can't compare a CCC event to a regular ladder game that doesn't require the same amount of organization. Fair play is mostly the rule in CCC. We often give team time between 2 rounds if they need some rest. We give more time compared to regular ladder for a clan to fill a team, for a player to rejoin... because a good fight is better than a fake win. We experience some "ccc drama" from time to time, some smacktalk, some angry players but there is still a CCC Spirit of fair play in the air
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Post by DrShot on Feb 20, 2007 3:21:00 GMT -5
Hmmm, I cannot believe I read this entire thread. Gogf, solid and well spoken. Emperor P. As a TD you should do more than make grade school "he/they did it so I / we can" analogies. Very 'unprofessional' and really beneath any TD I have known in the many years of civ I have had the pleasure of participating. Perhaps an explaination not just a - because I said so - and thats final ( it's in the rules ha ha!) rebuttle would help the situation. You know, aleviate tension, not throw fuel on the fire so to speak. Perhaps a review of the code of conduct for TD's would be a more fitting topic. MVV- hot link, you know, the civwoumamsgonewild, I like it, your so dirty...
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Post by DrShot on Feb 20, 2007 3:23:59 GMT -5
Rules are rules. there are no if ands or buts. look at the olympics should you win if they have a flawless preformance except they fall once? if they fall once it would not be flawless, no? What if everyone else fell twice? Besides, people fall all the time in ice hockey, not sure how it matters, goals win last I checked...
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Post by MMV on Feb 20, 2007 6:05:28 GMT -5
Despite all else mentioned in this thread (he said, she said, they said), it was a clan captain who conceded the match he was in.
If[/i] he did it without the proper amount of votes from his team, that would be an issue between his team-mates and a TD and/or his team-mates and him.
The TD made NO[/i] decision here, he just stepped in and basically asked wtf - and was told by the captain that his team conceded.
Congrats to INTER for their 8 points - first time for you all but welcome to the CCC "beyond 1st match" - waiting is part of the game.
NOTE TO SELF: When meeting INTER in a tournament match, push the envelope to make them wait as long as legally possible; it frustrates them and makes them quit
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Post by balmung on Feb 20, 2007 7:28:02 GMT -5
lol MMV dont post tactics to beat INTER ;D Nevertheless some points needs to be clarified and dont post before reading posts carfully From Eiffel:" Some new clans and/or new players don't get the CCC spirit yet. No doubt they will understand what it is and that you can't compare a CCC event to a regular ladder game that doesn't require the same amount of organization.
Fair play is mostly the rule in CCC. We often give team time between 2 rounds if they need some rest. We give more time compared to regular ladder for a clan to fill a team, for a player to rejoin... because a good fight is better than a fake win.
We experience some "ccc drama" from time to time, some smacktalk, some angry players but there is still a CCC Spirit of fair play in the air " Eiffel we are in total agreement. I would never like winning a game cause of 2 min and i can repeat that for almost all our clanies. Unfortunally our princess goes mad about that situatin in that special game: a drop when 18 turns left, my clanies had send stacks to LKT and a sub after waiting 12 min. She quit game ( more sad also Clan ). When she was in lobby inter tried to control that situation by asking for clarification by TD hoping our princess will come back cause we would have missed a player. And then the sad story realy starts: A famous Ray player (hello Knupp ) started playing TD and the situation got out of control In the end, when the TD shown up, he decided after talking to LKT and Knupp that INTER lost. Penguin you didnt even talk to an INTER player This made the situation even worse. Instead of getting a clarification of the situation by TD INTER was DQ. No way to get our princess back into game and no chance finding a sub for us cause we were DQ in 1 min withou being asked by TD. To make it clear: no hard words to LKT , they offered to go on with the game after DQ by famous TD but it was too late To famous RAY players involved: Nice words now of fair play and sportsmanship. Why you didnt behaved like that during the lobby chat? Why my clanmates could get a proper TD answer instead of you fair judgement. Pls shut up next time or pm Levi for becoming a TD then you can spam the lobby with your judgements ;D To famous TD penguin:Penguin you are a very special case for me: I showed you a proof (chat) that you decided against INTER in less then 1 min without talking to any INTER player You came up with the answer that Batams as captain conceded before I showed you with a proof (chat) that this is not true ( this also to MMV ) and that Bantams conceded after you DQ INTER. And what is your answer : " I have a question for you why do you have the whole damn CCC chat on record?" Yes you asked where i got this damn proof Wrong totaly wrong answer. And you are posting about olympics, fair play and sportsmanship For me it looks like the following : You decided in less 1 min without asking INTER who wanted a TD ruling and asked for a TD. Your posting wrong statements saying, that Bantans conceded before. Instead of posting a sorry or i forgotten how the timimg was you are asking me where i got the damn chat showing your understanding of fairness Thanks to the one who gave me the chat Penguin i m expecting an intelligent answer now an not a stupid question
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Post by Bantams on Feb 20, 2007 9:18:44 GMT -5
I have a question for you why do you have the whole damn CCC chat on record? I always Record the lobby Chat Just Incase something interesting Happens
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Post by Bantams on Feb 20, 2007 9:36:13 GMT -5
Despite all else mentioned in this thread (he said, she said, they said), it was a clan captain who conceded the match he was in. I wasnt In that game just so you know I did event 11 and I am not Clan Captain Im Just equal to the rest of my Clan only im more Calm when it comes to CCC and making Decistions I Only Conceded this event due to ReNero told me they needed 2 subs Anna went awol and as I was the only Player available as a Sub at the time we had no choice imo than to concede. Anyhow Its Only a bloody game move along Nothing more to see Here
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Post by knupp on Feb 20, 2007 10:51:00 GMT -5
Why am I being brought into this thread and made into the bad guy? LKT and Inter were arguing the the lobby, something they shouldn't have been doing. I was stating my opinion on the issue. If they didn't want it they should have been talking to the TD in pm's. Also, a TD that is typing in all caps in going crazy in the lobby didn't help anybody in this situation.
This is an extremely old situation. One that was already decided by the TD's, HTD, and Admins. If you didn't like there decision you could have emailed them and brought it up with them.
Apparently NOM you forgot everything that happened in that game. Both teams achieved space victory on the same turn, and because the other team was #1 team in the staging they were declared victor. Even though we had higher points (and IMO should have clearly won that game) we decided to let them move onto the finals as long as we could share 2nd place points. How then, do we not have fair play when we let other teams move on instead of us? You do realize we could have moved on to win that event right? Do not expect any sympathy from me when something like this happens to you. This is a moot argument anyways, and you shouldn't have brought it up in this thread NOM. Has nothing to do with the issue.
Wow, disrespectful. There is only one RaY in high school and believe me when I say he is much more mature than you.
That CCC we were only 1 point difference from you. This CCC we were only 2 points difference from you. Maybe we should share this title too? Give me a break. That CCC RaY was the best clan. This CCC GOD is the best clan. I don't see why you would bring something like this up when it happened so long ago, and then sling mud at RaY's face, especially when we've never had a problem with you. As Mookie said, I've lost all my respect for you.
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Post by cankaban on Feb 20, 2007 11:37:55 GMT -5
from my side both MDR and ..A.. played with fairplay in last event 6,i congratulate two clans cause of that,cause i know their patience during dropss and reloads,i hope it will start a good relationship between two clans,i would like to see many mdr vs ..a.. games in ccc's cot's.also we can arrange training games with you too,but i must say this,i wont wait if it takes 7 hours this time also i always support new names like this penguin,but i saw he talking about us,and saying the things that he had no idea about what he talking about from our back(what a sentence),someone must speak to him,a td shouldt support any team,or shouldnt offend any team in my opinion,how can we hope he will decide for us,if he got so many reasonless hate to my clan,its enough plz no more ccc games to him,also i must thank to levi for being objective,i %100 trust him.also some td's are in clans,we should find clanless td's to do this job,but not like this penguin..
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Post by NumberOneMercury on Feb 20, 2007 12:08:58 GMT -5
Whatever the mechanism, the game said you lost, so IMO you lost. This is just like getting liberalism or a wonder same turn, no difference. Ask for a patch, but don't change the rules ex post--the game said you lost IMO.
I dropped it then bc no one else really cared. But tbh, this is my first clan and the only game I play either online or off and I did care.
I have nothing against RaY per se, I like most of your players personally and respect most of their play styles including the ones that posted in this thread. I've respect enough to let them live in CTON style games to not have to report to all when it doesn't matter to me.
However, I don't think that what occurred there was fair and am now offended by your taking a position as arbiters of "fair play." (That's why it's in this thread.)
Please note that I am speaking personally and not for my clan (who I believe disagree with my stance).
IDK maybe it's just because I'm a lawyer, maybe it's just because I think it's not right. But this thread bothered me.
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Post by inter on Feb 20, 2007 12:12:16 GMT -5
ok Bantams said something which making me THINK ( sometimes i do), i didn't got this point before but i think it's important: ARE THERE RULES ABOUT GETTING PEOPLE BACK IN GAMES? YES ! U SAY 15 MINUTES! WHO ARE THE CLANS IN THE GAME TO DECIDE THEY CAN WAIT 7 HOURS THEN?= i just talked with MDR JULOT he said a TD gave them power to wait... OHHHHHHHHHH u make rules and u break it... sure maybe dictators are yer model. reply this now please wtf ,, GETTING SO MANY POSTS JUST MAKE YOU REALIZE THERE IS A PROBLEM MAYBE ( not only INTERs but of the whole circus) . no? If u want to be like arthur dictators u already do ... just don't say people can't say what they think about what u do Pinguino or not record chat... lol this is ridicoulus and fascist i m not against no one here i just had to defend the only FEMALE in my clan and probably one of the few of this ladder... she was wrong and i knew, winning for 2 minutes is a shame BUT once she decided... u know females LOL i think i am for cracoviatt and baraba for next CCC TDs...at least they are proud they love Stalin and Tito.
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Post by willburn on Feb 20, 2007 12:21:30 GMT -5
Havent followed the thread and in fact have no clue what the fuzz is about but my question is whats up with all the diss of RaY? Just because we win a few tournaments we are suddenly the bad guys? Mkay.
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Post by MookieNJ on Feb 20, 2007 12:36:35 GMT -5
Whatever the mechanism, the game said you lost, so IMO you lost. This is just like getting liberalism or a wonder same turn, no difference. Ask for a patch, but don't change the rules ex post--the game said you lost IMO. The lead programmer of Civ4 confirmed that there is absolutely no mechanism in place when a victory condition is tied, it simply goes to the player or team with the lowest team number as set in the staging room. (This fact can be confirmed by any number of C4P members who are on the beta team). It is very very different than tying for Liberalism or a Wonder, both of which have a mechanism specifically put in place by the developers to deal with a tie -- the RNG. Personally I think you are 100% wrong if you don't think what happened in the Future situation a few CCCs ago was fair, but that in no way determines whether or not anyone in RaY can form a reasonable opinion about what is or is not fair play. Furthermore, that situation was arbitrated and resolved collectively by the Admins and Tournament Directors. RaY simply called for a review of the situation because of the extreme circumstances. I assure you any other clan placed in this unfortunate situation would have done the same thing. We didn't magically add points to our total to suit ourselves. In the end, no matter how you try to justify your actions, I have no respect for you after the way you have called my friends and me out in a thread like this. You are upset about our views on fair play, but you know absolutely nothing about respect.
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