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Post by SirPartyMan on Feb 10, 2007 13:58:16 GMT -5
Dear Friends:
This is the comments and suggestions thread, where you can point out possible rules changes and/or suggest things to make the events more exciting.
Best, SPM
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Post by balmung on Feb 10, 2007 14:12:56 GMT -5
wow # 8 is now industrial ;D Would be nice if it will be played like # 12 on HB Inland Sea_V2 and not on c4f. 160 turns seems long for an industrial game. As space victory is on I would propose 120 turns to make space race more challenging. And thx for no nukes
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moineau
Warrior
Administrator
Posts: 330
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Post by moineau on Feb 10, 2007 14:19:10 GMT -5
I would prefer OCC in classical, but why not in indus. I dont know for other, but i prefer the TBG in 3vs3 than in 4vs4 because it is faster and more tense. All seems good
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Post by MMV on Feb 10, 2007 17:35:13 GMT -5
Either eliminate Mali from event #1 (classic single's tourney) or just declare victory to the clan that gets first pick.
(it will save a whole lot of time)
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Post by venceslas on Feb 10, 2007 18:02:25 GMT -5
Many top players pick Zulu in first choice. Azteq is also better than Mali. Howevever Mali is often picked in second choice.
When Mali is picked in first, Inca is much more powerfull than Mali.
Mali is almost never picked in first choice in 1v1.
chris.
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Post by DrShot on Feb 10, 2007 20:57:34 GMT -5
Event # 6 Ancient 4v4 - TBG map Event # 9 Med 3v3 - ILS map Both of these styles of game are vertually extinct. IMO they do not represent the current state of ladder play. I believe the CCC was/is to typify the current state of the game, keeping the 'contest' fresh and current. On the other hand it would be a great place to offer a new direction for potential game styles. Ancient 4v4 how about a classical at least? Med 3v3 on ILS this is absurdly heanouos. There are anywhere from 2-6 TBG med 3v3(up to 6v6) nightly for the last 3+ weeks. ILS is antiquated virtually obsolete map. Let the dinosours of Ren keep it to themselves... Highlands, excellent map(runs larger in size, adjust accordingly) for almost any game. These are my opinions, I do not print them as a directive. Like them or not this is how many of us see the current state of the ladder and the CCC at this time. As always I welcome all feedback, even from LeStat
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Post by MookieNJ on Feb 10, 2007 21:04:59 GMT -5
TBG has a lot of odd quirks and is not a great map for advanced starts. Many times I see one side getting all the Ivory with the other getting none. Similarly I see one side getting all lakes starts while the other team gets all rivers, which is another huge disparity. TBG is a great map for Ancient and Classical, and is even good for Modern and Future (although it eliminates boat attacks) because of Biology, but for Medi, Ren, and Industrial I think they are best played on other maps.
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Post by MookieNJ on Feb 10, 2007 21:07:39 GMT -5
Overall a solid event lineup for this CCC. Personally I don't feel that any changes need to be made ... unless of course someone can come up with a better map for Future .
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Post by eiffel on Feb 10, 2007 21:34:53 GMT -5
Yes, good schedule but i must admit HB maps are far better for late eras OCC games. Having no oil, ura, alu while others have them in tanks, planes era is not good. Only HB maps can guarantee such resources.
Also, both players should be able to play same civ/leader in event 1.
And I still think Ironman should be played with 10 instead of 8.
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Post by tamijo on Feb 11, 2007 1:49:59 GMT -5
ironman with 8 was more than enough, as people is subbing in and out rather often, and the lagging is terrible.
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Post by MMV on Feb 11, 2007 9:16:22 GMT -5
Also, both players should be able to play same civ/leader in event 1 VERY good suggestion!!
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Post by SirPartyMan on Feb 11, 2007 13:44:35 GMT -5
Changes:
Event 1: both players can pick same civ leader Event 8: Switch Indu OCC map to HB Inland Sea V2 - 130 turns Event 9: Switch map to TBG for Medieval 3v3
Best, SPM
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Post by MookieNJ on Feb 11, 2007 14:46:36 GMT -5
Event 9: Switch map to TBG for Medieval 3v3 I absolutely, 100%, hate this switch. 3v3 Small Medieval TBG is just plain dumb. Plant on resource and rush ... takes a lot of thought and strategy. Tons of teamers are still played with Medieval Inland Sea settings, yet one player says to change this to TBG, which is an awful idea, and it gets changed? Makes no sense.
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Post by metallian on Feb 11, 2007 17:41:51 GMT -5
You can't play 3v3 medi on TBG because there isn't a map size for it. TBG small map script is like tiny for ILS. TBG doesn't have a mapsize that fits 3v3. Inland is best scrip for 3v3 no doubt, it allows for early attacks, teching, GPing, and late boat attacks. It's funny because Inland gets a lot of flack on here but it's by far the most balanced map.
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Post by SirPartyMan on Feb 11, 2007 17:45:23 GMT -5
I am sorry - I was reacting to DrShot's suggestion.
Since TBG won't work, any other suggested alternatives to Inland Sea?
If Medieval teamers are more popular, on which maps?
SPM
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Post by MookieNJ on Feb 11, 2007 17:57:07 GMT -5
I don't think there needs to be an alternative to Inland Sea for the Medieval 3v3. This event runs perfectly on the previous settings of Small Inland Sea Medium Sea Level. You can tech, GP, rush, etc. -- in short, there are many different avenues to victory that are completely stripped away when the map is changed.
There are lots of teamers run every day on Inland Sea Medieval, and I've seen a lot of clans practicing these settings. Let's keep it simple: if it's not broke -- don't fix it.
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Post by DrShot on Feb 11, 2007 20:16:18 GMT -5
Well, sorry for voicing an opinion. I see TBG and Pang maps for 3v3 up to 6v6 several times daily. Understandably this is unacceptable for mookie -> "3v3 Small Medieval TBG is just plain dumb. Plant on resource and rush ... takes a lot of thought and strategy. " So disregard anything myself or anyone else has to say about changes. sorry for stepping on your toes. In hind sight I see the brilliance of the ILS strat. Build a front city. Bomb it. Have the guy behind you send units for wards and attack. Talk about strategy!!!! I was truly oblivious to the deep thought processes that must have gone into these great strategies. None plants on resources(everyone always does in TBG, mookie says so!) in ILS games. Forget change, lets keep the ladder a dinosaur. Lets not talk to anyone that is playing games that break from the standard 2 dimensional games of a 2 front(talk about deep strategy ffs) conflict. Metallian provides a reason for his disagreement. I play pang map games 2-4 times a week, fair, not always... enjoyable, almsot every time! you want fair lets just all be MGT and play 1v1 on a mirror map on Monday mornings at 6 am. Sign me up, I'm there! "Tons of tamers are still played with Medieval Inland Sea settings, yet one player says to change this to TBG, which is an awful idea, and it gets changed? Makes no sense. " Tons? very descriptive, is this a metric ton or imperial? Hasty to switch, likely( i did not expect a switch but I was looking for a discussion about the topic). But just because mookie (one player? i think so) says 'NO!" and he hates it is is more than enough to switch it back... what a fuking joke. I can see the caveman looking at the tree that caught fire from lightning thinking " fire bad" and runs away... yes, I reread my post, nowhere did I make demands or request anything but a review and a discussion, i thought that was not to much to ask...
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Post by charliebrownparker on Feb 11, 2007 20:36:52 GMT -5
Event 9: Switch map to TBG for Medieval 3v3 I absolutely, 100%, hate this switch. 3v3 Small Medieval TBG is just plain dumb. Plant on resource and rush ... takes a lot of thought and strategy. Tons of teamers are still played with Medieval Inland Sea settings, yet one player says to change this to TBG, which is an awful idea, and it gets changed? Makes no sense. On Medie TBG main problem is from Shaka. Spot on metal, slave impis and rush. In case you don't have metal on cap you just have to pray and keep your workers home until you discover Feodalism. Ban shaka on TBG and you will have more open games based on developpement (tech, wonders, great artists or scientist......). Ring or Wheel are good maps too for medie teamer games. Why beeing limited to TBG and Inland?
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Post by MookieNJ on Feb 11, 2007 21:16:01 GMT -5
In hind sight I see the brilliance of the ILS strat. Build a front city. Bomb it. Have the guy behind you send units for wards and attack. Talk about strategy!!!! I was truly oblivious to the deep thought processes that must have gone into these great strategies. None plants on resources(everyone always does in TBG, mookie says so!) in ILS games. Thanks for being a total thingy and constantly throwing my name out there for disagreeing with you. Intelligent remarks like that really drive your point home well, good job. You want to talk about the strategies involved in Medieval Inland Sea? You obviously find it one dimensional, but maybe you should think about the game a bit more before you're so quick to judge it. Last CCC in 3 different rounds my team used 3 different strategies -- outbuild and crush, quick rush, and a completely alternative tech path. Plus we only used 1 Great Artist for a culture bomb during the entire Medieval tournament. I guess the strategy isn't as linear as you think. Now to expand upon my problem with TBG. On Small TBG 3v3, there's a good chance that multiple players will start fewer than 8 tiles away. With civs like Zulu, Egypt, and Persia in the mix, planting on a strategic resource, rushing, and slaving 2 movers becomes a no-brainer. Just as Charlie said -- this limits strategy and fun. In the end, if both teams survive the rush, the team that puts up the most Artist bombs wins ... not exactly the most fun one can have playing a game of civ. Inland Sea is, by far, the most fun and fair map to play 3v3 Medieval on. I wouldn't be totally opposed to trying out Ring or Wheel, but as I said before, if it's not broken, don't fix it ... keeping this event on Inland Sea is clearly the best choice here, in my opinion. As for alternative maps ... Other events already use Mirror, Tilted Axis, Wheel, Hub, Ring, TBG, Balanced Pangaea, and various custom OCC maps. We don't need to try to mix things up when we have a great formula already in place. And as far as Pangaea goes ... Always enjoyable? Not so much when you start in the tundra, the jungle, or on a tiny peninsula.
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Post by everybodysdarling on Feb 11, 2007 22:43:55 GMT -5
wow I admire all players who like to play medieval on Inland Sea. But since it's not my event, I dont wanna comment it. lol
But the future map has to be changed. And I really recommend the inland sea map for 3v3 future. All of advanced future players will agree with me there. As an alternate we might play custom continents in future. But inland sea is for sure the most balanced and (in opposit to medieval) very fast and action packed map. Please change titled axis to either custom continents (small, medium sea) or small inland sea.
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