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Post by deyreepher on Oct 10, 2006 19:19:32 GMT -5
apart that i dont think that a ping worse then 500 is "normal", at least not for me. Even with players from all around world people should have pings around 300 when all got a decent connection. If u dont have a decent connection u should just not play a game where u could meet people from all over world. In interest of every1. Distance is a motherf**ker. Blaming it on their connection is a ridiculous proposition. Do you know how blazing fast the connections in S.Korea and Japan are? It's the internet backbone pipelines that are slowing down these global games. I don't see what you could possibly do to fix this aside from massive re-engineering efforts software and hardware to get things to be acceptable. I do think, however, that there is a software issue as the MUD guys have been saying, the game has gotten laggier since the expansion.
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Post by deyreepher on Oct 10, 2006 19:21:48 GMT -5
"Shut up and play" "what bitches" "this is an f-ing old save" And in the lobby somebody said MDR f*****? Plus however many other screenshots juni has of the unsportmanship like behavior. Wow, I think it's pretty obvious something needs to change. If you can't handle yourself in a civil manner you should be disqualified from the event IMO. Unfortunately, this kind of behavior is somewhat percieved as acceptable among the younger crowd. The kind of culture we export to the rest of the world....can you really blame them? I don't think so. On top of that is the language barrier. Language barrier + internet culture + misconceptions = bad times. I'm glad none of you bitches run the world. We'd all be dead by now.
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Post by GigaByte1128 on Oct 10, 2006 23:06:16 GMT -5
thats exactly what i meant, the disucssion u 2 clans are having is pointless, neither ll go of his way of telling the story. Thats just where admins are td should be there and make a desicion before more accusing and bad words destroy the fun atmosphere even more. i guess u can stop it now, respect for MDR guys in ladder is bigger anyway so at least I ll take your side of story. apart that i dont think that a ping worse then 500 is "normal", at least not for me. Even with players from all around world people should have pings around 300 when all got a decent connection. If u dont have a decent connection u should just not play a game where u could meet people from all over world. In interest of every1. Tommy wtf do you know about pings!...Are you the inventor of the internet?. think about, if you take a flight from New York to Perth Western Australia, it would take around 20 hours, if you play a game with a connection from Perth to NY, it takes a 1 or 2 seconds lag...GOD can't you be patient and wait 1 or 2 secs? And you say that if i dont have a decent connection i should not play civ, Tommy i love the game and are you saying that i should not play online? Tommy its easy for you to say that! cause you are in the USA......GOD i may aswell withdraw from this ladder..
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Post by MookieNJ on Oct 10, 2006 23:20:50 GMT -5
Tommy wtf do you know about pings!...Are you the inventor of the internet?. think about, if you take a flight from New York to Perth Western Australia, it would take around 20 hours, if you play a game with a connection from Perth to NY, it takes a 1 or 2 seconds lag...GOD can't you be patient and wait 1 or 2 secs? And you say that if i dont have a decent connection i should not play civ, Tommy i love the game and are you saying that i should not play online? Tommy its easy for you to say that! cause you are in the USA......GOD i may aswell withdraw from this ladder.. Tommy is from Germany dude!
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Post by GigaByte1128 on Oct 10, 2006 23:36:34 GMT -5
Tommy wtf do you know about pings!...Are you the inventor of the internet?. think about, if you take a flight from New York to Perth Western Australia, it would take around 20 hours, if you play a game with a connection from Perth to NY, it takes a 1 or 2 seconds lag...GOD can't you be patient and wait 1 or 2 secs? And you say that if i dont have a decent connection i should not play civ, Tommy i love the game and are you saying that i should not play online? Tommy its easy for you to say that! cause you are in the USA......GOD i may aswell withdraw from this ladder.. Tommy is from Germany dude! Well Germany is way closer to New York...he only says ping is 300 globally because his ping to the USA is 300, he has absolutely no idea what the ping is from Australia to USA.
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Post by mansurji on Oct 11, 2006 8:14:16 GMT -5
I will be engaging the admin and TD team in a discussion about what to do about excessive lag in the CCC, there likely is not a easy solution, but if we make a rule it will be well known prior to the next CCC. CS Could you think about my idea of ruling about hamachi ?
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Post by Tony on Oct 11, 2006 9:17:07 GMT -5
From my experiance hamchi doesnt do nothing, it doesnt stop or create lagg, i dont think it has a place in warlords, unless of course someone hasnt configured his fire wall properly. But i guess it doesnt do any harm so could be worth a try. Back to gigabytes post ... i think 1-2 sec delay on moving units is WAY WAY too much, the game becomes unfun and fustrating. I can understand your fustration, living so far and all, but continuing to play with a bad(EDIT::bad is probally the wrong word) connection is unfair on others IMO. I have played civ on a 1.5MB connection before in the past, with zero lagg, so i could only imagine thats a 4-8mb connection or so should compensate for the extra distance, if not maybe its a ISP issue? I can tell you, from alot of MP experiance if you get known as a lagger people will stop playing with you .
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Post by Canucksoldier on Oct 11, 2006 10:55:15 GMT -5
Hamachi can solve complicated firewall and router issues especially in some countries were these are at the ISP level. But it won't solve latency issues caused by nothing more than distance and internet congestion.
CS
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Post by notagoodname on Oct 11, 2006 18:57:41 GMT -5
Perhaps we should allow a special exemption for games with high lag where we can cut back the number of players and play on a smaller map. eg. If it is a 3v3 and it ends up being australians/asians vs euros the 2 clans can come to a gentlemans agreement to restart the game as a 2v2 on a smaller map with the 2 laggiest players left out?
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Post by GigaByte1128 on Oct 11, 2006 23:32:29 GMT -5
if not maybe its a ISP issue? I think you are maybe right , prior to CCC37 i did switch my ISP in Australia. Before i switched ISP i used to have pings to USA at 450ms, to Germany 400ms, to Asia 300ms and to Australia at 150Ms. When i switched ISP people are telling me that my pings are 2500ms to USA ( wow really laggy ). i think i will have to change back to previous ISP.
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Post by Ellestar on Oct 13, 2006 17:13:22 GMT -5
Guys who have very bad connections (I know, they can do nothing about that, unfortunately), who know that, but keep playing an unplayable game, and insult the opponents who don't want to concede, I don't see where is the fun playing with this kind of players. Actually, you're completely wrong here. It's a french players who has bad connections most of the time (from my personal experience, compared to other Euro players). Hovewer, Korean players may very well have a very good connections (and i guess it is so because broadband connections are significantly more prevalent in Korea compared to Euro countries), but backbone internet channels between Korea and Euro don't have enough bandwidth for a current internet usage (it may be easily checked by tracerouting some major asian game servers like a an Asian Blizzard server asia.battle.net - there is no way that it can have a "bad inernet connection" or something like that, but your ping to it will be worse than to a major USA servers, including USA Blizzard severs useast.battle.net and uswest.battle.net, for example). So, you're wrong when you're blaming Asian players for their bad internet connections. You should blame himself that you have a "bad connection" to Asia at the same time you're blaming them that they have a "bad connection" to Euro. For example, for me pings to a last server in a traceroute list is (their servers doesn't respond to pings in the last 1.5 years or so, so i find a last server IP in the traceroute list and then ping it with a packet size 1024 - default packet size is 32 or so, 1024 better resembles a game packets = real ping and it may be significantly bigger on a bad connections compared to a default ping): my 1st internet provider (100 Mbit, optics, maximum speed i observed so far was 1.35 Mbyte/second download and 1.95 Mbyte/second upload): europe.battle.net: 27 ms useast.battle.net: 133 ms uswest.battle.net: 195 ms asia.battle.net: 350 ms my 2nd internet provider (ADSL 2048 Kbit download / 512 Kbit upload): europe.battle.net: 63 ms useast.battle.net: 175 ms uswest.battle.net: 235 ms asia.battle.net: 395 ms
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Post by Ellestar on Oct 13, 2006 17:46:56 GMT -5
I think you are maybe right , prior to CCC37 i did switch my ISP in Australia. Before i switched ISP i used to have pings to USA at 450ms, to Germany 400ms, to Asia 300ms and to Australia at 150Ms. When i switched ISP people are telling me that my pings are 2500ms to USA ( wow really laggy ). i think i will have to change back to previous ISP. Don't ever use small local providers for international gaming, they probably buy foreign internet channels from a big internet providers anyway and they may not buy enough foreign bandwidth. So, be sure that your internet provider has his own backbone internet channels to other countries or that he buys them directly from their owners (if backbone internet channels are not in any provider's property). P.S. Wow. You're not even checking your pings to a servers in other countries when you're living in such an as s (considering internet) and you're changing a provider? ?? Anyway, 2500 ping probably means that there was a packet loss and game showed a very big average ping.
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Post by venceslas on Oct 14, 2006 2:41:48 GMT -5
Ellestar, LKT and MDR play CCC civ4 from a long time. I can speak only for LKT, but we have almost never trouble with connection.
Use your experience with the CCC players Ellestar, it's much more relevant...
Like explained by Tommy, in his experience he has not trouble with LKT and MDR players. Your generalization are ashame.
That's a nonsense to say that's the MDR's fault. Even the HOK players has said that one of theirs players was lagging. How can you dare to write such a thing? They also said that they have lagged in previous round.
Well, if you have personnal problem with french people(you don't like or anything like that), ok np, but please do not make a personnal vendetta against a country, I strongly invite you to reread the forums rules:
"You agree, through your use of this forum, that you will not post any material which is false, defamatory, inaccurate, abusive, vulgar, hateful, harassing, obscene, profane, sexually oriented, threatening, invasive of a person's privacy"
chris.
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Post by Ellestar on Oct 14, 2006 4:16:22 GMT -5
Use your experience with the CCC players Ellestar, it's much more relevant... Like explained by Tommy, in his experience he has not trouble with LKT and MDR players. Your generalization are ashame. Besides, in this CCC we had some troubles connecting with French players once again (i don't remember for sure which clan), in the end we wasted about 40 minutes trying to reload and they found a sub. So, my generalization is perfectly valid because i experience it every time. If you don't like the truth, then it's your personal problems. That's a nonsense to say that's the MDR's fault. Even the HOK players has said that one of theirs players was lagging. How can you dare to write such a thing? They also said that they have lagged in previous round. Ok, i'll clarify. No, in this case it's not MDR's fault. However, a big ping between Korean and French players isn't a Korean's players fault either. Well, if you have personnal problem with french people(you don't like or anything like that), ok np, but please do not make a personnal vendetta against a country, I strongly invite you to reread the forums rules: Nah. I just don't like when someone accuses others in something while doing it themselves and when someone doesn't understand what's the real problem. Like, having a bad internet connections while leaving in Europe (and being the only country like that, from my experience) and telling that other far away players have a bad connections as well when most of the time it's the problem with backbone internet channels between us instead of their personal connections. So, i explained to you what's the real problem here. Please, try to ping different battle.net servers and see it himself. P.S. I also don't like when someone denies something obvious (like, a significant percent of French players has some troubles with their connections). It has nothing to do with French players, my dislike to particular groups of players or something like that, i just don't like when someone posts something like that and i want to raize an objection against it.
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Post by tommynt on Oct 14, 2006 4:29:41 GMT -5
ES even when there might be some French players having con. problems there are others like swe for example aswell.
And in this case the thread is about it s kinda obvious who the lagger was
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Post by venceslas on Oct 14, 2006 5:04:07 GMT -5
Ellestar I don't deny the fact you may have more connexion trouble with french players that others players.
However, the main fact is at the CCC, generally speaking, LKT, for example(it's easier for me to speak about my clan, because I know the connexion quality from everyone) has no connexion problem with others clans.
I will give you one example about how bad is your generalisation:
Let's pick our last game together, both of us have played the TBG final 3v3 at the last CCC, could you say that there even one second from lag in all the game?
Sure backbone and co are sometime a good explanation, but due to the fact both corean players had horrible ping between them, I don't think it's the explanation.
About this topic, facts seems clear.
Peace.
chris.
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Juni
Worker
Posts: 137
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Post by Juni on Oct 14, 2006 12:55:55 GMT -5
So, you're wrong when you're blaming Asian players for their bad internet connections. You should blame himself that you have a "bad connection" to Asia at the same time you're blaming them that they have a "bad connection" to Euro. As I already said several times, I didn't open this thread to blame HoK players for their lag, but to blame them for their bad behaviour.
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