Post by mrgametheory on Jan 22, 2006 3:13:26 GMT -5
Dear People, but more specifically the Admins
This is your good pal Mr Game theory here to say a few things that will not only interest you, but will prove to be valuable information in the days to come.
I would first like to say that I respect and appreciate all Admins who run CCC and moderate these boards because they sacrifice time out of their day to help organize and maintain a community for us.
Due to the fact that currently there is only 1 "major" Tournament for Civ 4 players "CCC" I have a few concerns that I think players should keep in mind, but even more importantly, Admins should really think about.
I Am going to divide and organize this message so it is easier to follow because I feel that It will help our community grow into the direction it not only needs to, but wants to.
You Dont have to read this all in one sitting, but I highly suggest you finish reading it at some time or another.
Topics:
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1) Cheating
2) Rules
3) Settings
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Issue 1 - 1) Cheating:
I would like to keep you guys interested in what I am about to say, so I will start by telling you about cheating in CCC Games and Rules which seem to be not respected. I was in the Iron Man Cton Today. There were 8 Players in the Iron Man Cton and we played on the Hub map. After Around 150 -170 Turns of playing, TommyNt was in first place by around 400 points, I was in Second place by like 100 Points, followed by Lord Dragons AI who was in third Place by like 400. I began attacking the person who was in last Place (Sidhe) and I was able to take his 2 largest Cities. As soon as I started attacking him He tells the entire map. "Why are you attacking me, I am in last place and it seems illogical to waste your men at me." He didn't say my name but made sure that everyone knew he was being attacked. I attacked him over a period of 15 Turns and after around 3-5 comments from him telling the world that he was about to lose and GG and how military forces should be more directed at people who pose more a threat. Tommynt says "You must really be getting attacked" (Something along those lines). After going back and FORTH taking the same cities with Sidhe. He tells everyone (Well Game it seems that It is a lot harder to kill me than you thought) "Something Along these lines."
4-5 Turns after this comment was made, Tommynt shows up to my door with 15 Tanks. Let me add that Tommynt had those tanks sitting at his Base getting ready to defend and probably realized that If I were to Kill sidhe, which I was going to do, I would have his land and be able to pose a threat to him. I Paused the game And Explained to everyone in the game, what I am about to explain to you people.
"There are specific Cton Rules that separate it from FFA, one of the rules is that you are not supposed to talk about information relating to the game or a player, especially strategic information like "So and So is in first place, lets kill him or I am being attacked by this person." When everyone knows that 2 players are engaging in a conflict, they understand that lots of resources are being put into that conflict. By Sidhe Telling everyone that I was attacking him and almost about to kill him, he was telling the world that I am obviously sending lots of military troops over to kill him and I would not be able to defend myself as well. As soon as He made this comment and TommyNT's tanks arrived, Most of my men were in boats on the other side of the map getting ready to be dropped to kill Sidhe and were at least 9 turns from my front lines. I was producing military units very quickly and Could easily have taken out 15-20 tanks with Infantry, Grenadiers, and Calvary defending the cities. There was A small window of around 8-11 turns where I would be vulnerable to a huge attack. When I saw the tanks I hurried back all my units and obviously Sidhe took back his cities for good because it would be impossible to finish the task. BY the time my units were at the front lines I had lost 3 cities which were 7 spaces apart and even though I was able to kill his tanks with my extra units, the loss of three important military producing cities crushed me and he had 7 more tanks in my city. I paused the game and explained to everyone how this wasnt fair. 3-5 turns after I explained to everoyne how this wasnt fair England, who was my southern enemy, sent an entire army by ship onto my back lands. He instantly took several cities due to minimal military units, might I add that he had no scout in this time looking at my city and from all he should of known, there should be a huge stack there ready to defend. I retreated to a little island and just sat there for the rest of the game until Tommy completed the Space Race.
Within 13-16 Turns after the comments were made I lost 3/4s of my cities. I went from being in second place by a wide margin, to being in last place.
I tried to stop the game and explain to everyone that the situation and they said that was done was done and there is nothing I can do about it in the game and I should just take the situations up after the game. After the Game, AFTER THE GAME??? Everyone knows that we will probably not do a repeat CCC cton match again. CCC will be over and people will get slaps on the wrists and thats it. I felt that this was not justice and so I told everyone to Attack The person who was in First place because he was sending most of his units over to attack me. Obviously I was only saying this to prove and make a point and obviously no one attacked the first place person when I said this. The game is now over and Tommynt won and Before the end of the game, Sidhe retired from the game because there was no chance for him to get ranked and he did this saying that he was wrong to have said anything and probably in a way to avoid getting in trouble outside the tournament. Sidhe even offered to leave all of his cities and let me take them all over for free, thats how badly I was screwed by what was said, and I would of taken them over any way if he would of never said anything in the first place. I would of doubled in land Mass!!!!!!!!
If people can just go and break this rule it can completely ruin a game for a player. I actually have a great Idea, Next, CCC shall I just have a bunch of friends who are not going to compete come up with a bogus clan name and join with 6 people and have my friend join the Iron man and say to everyone that when a given players gets in the lead that he is being attacked by that person. In fact ill have him make it seem that the first place person is sending all of their military units to him and if anyone attacks the first place person they will probably succeed. I mean, what do they care if they are being disqualified, they don't care and will probably be in last place anyway, what do they have to lose by revealing specific information which proves to ruin 10 hours in another persons day? Is this the kind of environment you want in this game? Because if it is, This is my last CCC event.
What do you, the admins, the regulaters of all that is civil, have to say about this?
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Issue 1 - 1) Rules:
I think for For all future CCC Events.
1) There should be specific rules which declare that if they are broken, the person who broke that rule will be banned from all future CCC events, Ladder and their IP address will be taken down and cross listed so they cant just go and make a new name. Making it so they are banned from only CCC events may not be enough.
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Issue 2: Certain CCC rules:
I agree that tradition is important, but I also believe that times change and people need to evolve with what is right. What is good for 1 setting of context, may not be good in a different one. Having only 1 Cton tournament and having that 1 Cton match being with the option of pick, "But with no Duplicates" Is an extremely Illogical rule. For you to use the reasoning that games are boring when everyone picks the same character 'IS IRRELEVANT." The makers of the game felt the game is balanced and for the most part it is, but certain players like to use certain strategies and to say that a person cant use a specific strategy because another player already chose to use that strategy is a very weak and illogical way to run any kind of tournament. I understand if you are trying to give reining champions a boost so they can keep their titles (Which is in itself still terrible) But the area you are chosing to give them that advantage is neither reasonable, nor fair. If you chose this rule to deal with the problem of people picking leaders that are directly superior to already picked leaders, you are going about the wrong way to handle this. There are more logical ways to come to this argument and that includes having each player write the person they are going to pick in the staging room screen and on the count of 3 each players says the full name and country of the person they are going to pick and because its done so fast people have to do it in that 3 second window and spell everything correctly, Obviously this is a little wild, but a hell of a lot less wild than directly giving the advantage so some players over others.
If you are the person who invented this rule in Civ 3, whoever you are, you may need to read what I am writing here like 5 times, because I can't even conceive of someone comming up with that rule, let alone ultimatly picking it. People who carry on this tradition have a very poor conception of fairness and need to understand that games are no longer about skill, but about Clan skill, People not picking the leader you want Luck, and game skill, when if should just be game skill. If I love a cross bow strategy and I practice that strategy every single day and when I get to the one CCC cton tournament and it tells me that I cant use that strategy because it is used best with only 1 specific leader and to use another leader, while someone picks the leader you want to use, and they use the same strategy you were going to use, you end up being in a huge disadvantage against that person and everyone else, especially if all the industrious Leaders get picked and Its almost impossible to get wonders.
People should be allowed to pick who they want to pick. Certain maps give specific leaders an advantage over others leaders and if all the good leaders are taken, what than? Is this fair? If it his, ask yourself, literally, how is this fair? Seriously go ahead, try to convince yourself it is fair, because seriously, I cant find a logical (not even 1) logical reason in a video game why this should be a rule. The only reason why I could consider it a rule is because in real life there is obviously only one Alexander the great and in a game trying to stay true to life there should only be one, but this reasoning has no room in video games, let alone this one. We come to Civ 4 CCC to see who is the best of the best, no ifs ands or butts.
Lets compare this reasoning to something you guys may understand a little better. If you are on a tennis team, and you play doubles for your team and in the singles match before your game, the guy on your team losses. When your game started, not only does the other team have more (Over all) points than you in terms of the day (A by product and reason for winning), but you were told that you weren't allowed to use the racket you normally use, why? Because your opponent is using that same racket and its boring when everyone uses the same racket, because we all know certain tennis rackets are better for certain types of swings, player shape, form, serves, and stratagies. But in response to this harsh judgment you say, "well yes I do play with a few other rackets once in a while, but I am best with my Prince long head and considering this is the world championship game or Wimbledon and I want to play my Best, I think I should use the racket I am best at using, but they said, "I am sorry, thats too bad, you must use another one, WHy?, Because tradition is tradition and traditionally its more fun when the lowest ranked players dont get to pick the Rackets they normally play with because its cooler to see the same 5 Players make it to wimbledon every year and we want to make it harder for people to lose their positions and others to gain them, even if it means giving them a biased rule advantage.
There is no logical reason to do this no double picking rule in this context. If the model I designed above doesn't make sense, you may actually have Value assessment difficulties. Not trying to insult you, just being straight up serious.
Either allow players to pick whoever they like, or don't have just 1 Cton. Because in the end, games that are like the ones above, aren't true games of skill and tournaments are made to see who is the best in a specific area. Most people only end up participating in one event. If CCC is the only Major tournament in CIV 4, how is a player supposed to know who is actually the best when the tournament is based toward the clans with the most best players?
It isn't our fault that certain players are unbalanced on certain maps, its the creators of Civ 4s fault. As long as certain leaders are given an advantage on certain maps, and you allow the highest ranked player to pick that leader, you are giving that person an unfair advantage, the game is no longer fair or even, the game is now biased toward that person. Its like keeping the rich richer and the poor poorer, its keeping more money in the pockets for the rich and taking more money away from the pockets of the poor when it should be the other way around (OR) Not allowing this at all and a perfectly balanced environment is preserved in each event.
(Your come back) - "Well than Start your own tournaments" - I want to have my own tournaments but you must understand that for me to create one it would only take away from CCC tournaments as being special, why not change tradition and adopt more logical settings for games. I like the concept of CCC and there being only 1 major tournament every 6 weeks or so instead of every week and i want to keep it this way, but these rules and settings need to be changed, this isn't my personal opinion based on a perspective with the same value as other peoples opinions, this is an opinion based on actual Game theory strategy "Which I specialize in and indirectly pulling right outta my books" I am only here to create the "most balanced and fair game," "and this is how you do it, I'm not trying to tilt the odds in my favor, I'm trying to tilt the odds in the favor of the most skilled players."
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Issue 3: Future CCC events:
Here is a Good Idea for a Future Event.
1) Ironman Free for All 8 person ancient start - 120 - 200 turns first round - Epic no turn limit second round -
Why not create a strategy scenario as true to life as possible where people can talk in any way they please. In real life if someone looks like they are killing everyone and is in first place, people will talk and team up on that person, this teaches people actual strategy in knowing how to fool your enemies and play strategically to win, anything goes, anyone can say or trade or go to war and there are not set limits. People can talk in private. And do whatever. If it looks like 2 players are going into a game with a fixed strategy or going to team up, it was going to happen anyway even in regular cton rules, or someone is being attacked, they will obviously tell everyone that they are being attacked by 2 people and its logical to form an alliance with that person and a 3rd person in order to kill the 2 people because after that one person dies they will continue to alliance until everyone is dead and its better to team up while there is still 3 of them and even than the 2 people who are Allies have to kill each other inevitably and will have to strategically stab each others backs. If a specific player is really really good and they are afraid they will just be attacked by everyone when the game starts, they are wrong, most people don't even listen to people, unless they know for a fact they will be 100% safe in doing what they are doing. This will also teach people to play defensive games and even more importantly, not get insanely high scores making everyone think they are amazing players. Becides most great players, the greatest palyers usually being the ones who make it to the finals, realize that its stupid to attack anotehr player and hurt oneself in the begginign while everoyne else is just growing stronger. It is actually surprisingly difficult to keep ones score down if you know what you are doing and this will teach players to sabotage themselves and stay equal and not bring attention to themselves and in that fatal turn they take control and win. You wont have to Play this game always war and other strategies dont have to be picked and trade can actually occur!!!!!!!!! People will make allies and it will be the best game. This is true to the way strategy games are supposed to be played and this will be the most fun because (((((((( IT INCORPERATES NOT ONLY GAME LOGIC, BUT STRATEGY AND INTERACTION LOGIC AND STRATEGY AND THESE ARE THE BEST KINDS WHICH AT THE MOST DYNAMICS TO A GAME.)))))))))
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This is how tournaments should be run or be cool if they were run this way:
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Please read, its not what you think:
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Every single month there is a tournament:
The tournament will take place on the weekend, Friday Saturday, Sunday.
There will be 6 events a Day for a total of 18 events a tournament.
The first Month there will be 18 events and In each Event everyone who participates gets to pick any leader they like.
The Second Month there will be 18 events and in Each event everyone must pick Random.
These Months will switch.
So there will be 2 tournaments, each can have their own unique name. (Random tournament / Pick Tournament)
A specific Tournament will Be Held once every 4 months.
(Example Ancient 1v1) - But every month it will be held in a different time.
In Every Single Tournament the times for all events will move forward 1 slot making it take 72 months before a specific game will hit a specific Time period again. Obviously seems like a long time and obviously they will be out with a new game, but people play play this game forever and this tournament can go forever with it.
First month Schedule:
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Month 1:
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Friday Saturday Sunday
1v1 ancient pick 2v2 ancient pick 3v3 Ancient Pick
2v2 Medieval P 3v3 Medieval P 1v1 Medieval P
3v3 Indust P 1v1 Indust P 2v2 Indst P
1v1 Random P 2v2 Random P 3v3 Random P
Cton Ancient P Cton Medival P Cton Indust P
FFA Ancient P FFA Medival P FFA Industrious P
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Month 2:
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Friday Sturday Sunday
1v1 ancient Random 2v2 ancient R 3v3 Ancient R
2v2 Medival R 3v3 Medival R 1v1 Medival R
3v3 Indust R 1v1 Indust R 2v2 Indst R
1v1 Random R 2v2 Random R 3v3 Random R
Cton Ancient R Cton Medival R Cton Indust R
FFA Ancient R FFA Medival R FFA Industr R
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Month 3:
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Friday Sturday Sunday
2v2 Classical P 3v3 Classical pick 1v1 Classical Pick
3v3 Ren P 1v1 Ren P 2v2 Ren P
1v1 Modern P 2v2 Modern P 3v3 Modern P
2v2 Random P 3v3 Random P 1v1 Random P
Cton Classical P Cton Ren P Cton Modern P
FFA Classical P FFA Ren P FFA Modern P
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Month 4:
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Friday Sturday Sunday
2v2 Classical R 3v3 Classical R 1v1 Classical R
3v3 Ren R 1v1 Ren R 2v2 Ren R
1v1 Modern R 2v2 Modern R 3v3 Modern R
2v2 Random P 3v3 Random P 1v1 Random P
Cton Classical R Cton Ren R Cton Modern R
FFA Classical R FFA Ren R FFA Modern R
Month 5:
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Friday Saturday Sunday
FFA Medival Pick FFA Industrious P FFA Ancient P
2v2 ancient P 3v3 Ancient Pick 1v1 ancient p
3v3 Medival P 1v1 Medival P 2v2 Medival P 1v1 Indust P 2v2 Indst P 3v3 Indust P
2v2 Random P 3v3 Random P 1v1 Random P
Cton Medival P Cton Indust P Cton Ancient P
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Month 6:
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Friday Sturday Sunday
FFA Medival Ran FFA Industrious R FFA Ancient R
2v2 ancient R 3v3 Ancient R 1v1 ancient R
3v3 Medival R 1v1 Medival R 2v2 Medival R 1v1 Indust R 2v2 Indst R 3v3 Indust R
2v2 Random R 3v3 Random R 1v1 Random R
Cton Medival R Cton Indust R Cton Ancient R
AND SO ON::: "All Logical Rights Reserved"
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Now obviously this is just a rough sketch and in reality I would make it so there are maybe 50% random and 50% pick every single month, or maybe we just do it the way it is set up above.
Certain Events can Still have Subs and most rules are still the same.
We will actually start having who is actually the best in specific areas. It is even Logical to create a website with everyone stats on who is the best in certain areas. And give prizes to people. So you can Charge 1$ Pay pal or something for everyone to join a given tournament in a month and the Winner takes all or have a scoring or something. People keep times of games witht he options and take screen shots of the beggining and the end of Games. Maybe have some tournaments forfun, some for money, who knows, im just throwing lots of things out there.
Certain Tournaments will be offered every 4 moths, others will be offered every 2 months.
Due to the fact that actual games may be occurring less frequently (Every 4 Months). The titles will mean more.
Plus We can also set this up on clans so that Clans who win a given month, by having the most points, win the entire thing anf get a prize.
It Would be awesome if the Admins would actually look at what I wrote here, for it seems, at least for now, to be a great idea and the Ladder provides everything needed and all it would have to do is maybe add a page where the winners for each event each month should be written down (Takes about 5 minutes a month to do) if it isn't set on automate. Plus if this was turned into an actual site, the advertisement money, however small, can go 100% to prize money and people win prizes based on if they win, and Clans win money based on if they come in first.
I bet you a lot more than a few clans would be signing up these these things if you set them up like this, but in the the thats a biased perspective ;D
Anyways - Just Throwing this out there.
If you liek what I wrote here Please send me an Email at MrgameTheory@hotmail.com or AOL instant Message me or XFire me at "MrGameTheory".
Thank you for reading all of this. If you read this in one sitting, your amazing and I appreciate it, If you read it in multiple sittings, thats cool too and your still awsome.
Thanks a bunch.
Sincerely,
Mr Game Theory.
This is your good pal Mr Game theory here to say a few things that will not only interest you, but will prove to be valuable information in the days to come.
I would first like to say that I respect and appreciate all Admins who run CCC and moderate these boards because they sacrifice time out of their day to help organize and maintain a community for us.
Due to the fact that currently there is only 1 "major" Tournament for Civ 4 players "CCC" I have a few concerns that I think players should keep in mind, but even more importantly, Admins should really think about.
I Am going to divide and organize this message so it is easier to follow because I feel that It will help our community grow into the direction it not only needs to, but wants to.
You Dont have to read this all in one sitting, but I highly suggest you finish reading it at some time or another.
Topics:
--------
1) Cheating
2) Rules
3) Settings
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Issue 1 - 1) Cheating:
I would like to keep you guys interested in what I am about to say, so I will start by telling you about cheating in CCC Games and Rules which seem to be not respected. I was in the Iron Man Cton Today. There were 8 Players in the Iron Man Cton and we played on the Hub map. After Around 150 -170 Turns of playing, TommyNt was in first place by around 400 points, I was in Second place by like 100 Points, followed by Lord Dragons AI who was in third Place by like 400. I began attacking the person who was in last Place (Sidhe) and I was able to take his 2 largest Cities. As soon as I started attacking him He tells the entire map. "Why are you attacking me, I am in last place and it seems illogical to waste your men at me." He didn't say my name but made sure that everyone knew he was being attacked. I attacked him over a period of 15 Turns and after around 3-5 comments from him telling the world that he was about to lose and GG and how military forces should be more directed at people who pose more a threat. Tommynt says "You must really be getting attacked" (Something along those lines). After going back and FORTH taking the same cities with Sidhe. He tells everyone (Well Game it seems that It is a lot harder to kill me than you thought) "Something Along these lines."
4-5 Turns after this comment was made, Tommynt shows up to my door with 15 Tanks. Let me add that Tommynt had those tanks sitting at his Base getting ready to defend and probably realized that If I were to Kill sidhe, which I was going to do, I would have his land and be able to pose a threat to him. I Paused the game And Explained to everyone in the game, what I am about to explain to you people.
"There are specific Cton Rules that separate it from FFA, one of the rules is that you are not supposed to talk about information relating to the game or a player, especially strategic information like "So and So is in first place, lets kill him or I am being attacked by this person." When everyone knows that 2 players are engaging in a conflict, they understand that lots of resources are being put into that conflict. By Sidhe Telling everyone that I was attacking him and almost about to kill him, he was telling the world that I am obviously sending lots of military troops over to kill him and I would not be able to defend myself as well. As soon as He made this comment and TommyNT's tanks arrived, Most of my men were in boats on the other side of the map getting ready to be dropped to kill Sidhe and were at least 9 turns from my front lines. I was producing military units very quickly and Could easily have taken out 15-20 tanks with Infantry, Grenadiers, and Calvary defending the cities. There was A small window of around 8-11 turns where I would be vulnerable to a huge attack. When I saw the tanks I hurried back all my units and obviously Sidhe took back his cities for good because it would be impossible to finish the task. BY the time my units were at the front lines I had lost 3 cities which were 7 spaces apart and even though I was able to kill his tanks with my extra units, the loss of three important military producing cities crushed me and he had 7 more tanks in my city. I paused the game and explained to everyone how this wasnt fair. 3-5 turns after I explained to everoyne how this wasnt fair England, who was my southern enemy, sent an entire army by ship onto my back lands. He instantly took several cities due to minimal military units, might I add that he had no scout in this time looking at my city and from all he should of known, there should be a huge stack there ready to defend. I retreated to a little island and just sat there for the rest of the game until Tommy completed the Space Race.
Within 13-16 Turns after the comments were made I lost 3/4s of my cities. I went from being in second place by a wide margin, to being in last place.
I tried to stop the game and explain to everyone that the situation and they said that was done was done and there is nothing I can do about it in the game and I should just take the situations up after the game. After the Game, AFTER THE GAME??? Everyone knows that we will probably not do a repeat CCC cton match again. CCC will be over and people will get slaps on the wrists and thats it. I felt that this was not justice and so I told everyone to Attack The person who was in First place because he was sending most of his units over to attack me. Obviously I was only saying this to prove and make a point and obviously no one attacked the first place person when I said this. The game is now over and Tommynt won and Before the end of the game, Sidhe retired from the game because there was no chance for him to get ranked and he did this saying that he was wrong to have said anything and probably in a way to avoid getting in trouble outside the tournament. Sidhe even offered to leave all of his cities and let me take them all over for free, thats how badly I was screwed by what was said, and I would of taken them over any way if he would of never said anything in the first place. I would of doubled in land Mass!!!!!!!!
If people can just go and break this rule it can completely ruin a game for a player. I actually have a great Idea, Next, CCC shall I just have a bunch of friends who are not going to compete come up with a bogus clan name and join with 6 people and have my friend join the Iron man and say to everyone that when a given players gets in the lead that he is being attacked by that person. In fact ill have him make it seem that the first place person is sending all of their military units to him and if anyone attacks the first place person they will probably succeed. I mean, what do they care if they are being disqualified, they don't care and will probably be in last place anyway, what do they have to lose by revealing specific information which proves to ruin 10 hours in another persons day? Is this the kind of environment you want in this game? Because if it is, This is my last CCC event.
What do you, the admins, the regulaters of all that is civil, have to say about this?
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Issue 1 - 1) Rules:
I think for For all future CCC Events.
1) There should be specific rules which declare that if they are broken, the person who broke that rule will be banned from all future CCC events, Ladder and their IP address will be taken down and cross listed so they cant just go and make a new name. Making it so they are banned from only CCC events may not be enough.
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Issue 2: Certain CCC rules:
I agree that tradition is important, but I also believe that times change and people need to evolve with what is right. What is good for 1 setting of context, may not be good in a different one. Having only 1 Cton tournament and having that 1 Cton match being with the option of pick, "But with no Duplicates" Is an extremely Illogical rule. For you to use the reasoning that games are boring when everyone picks the same character 'IS IRRELEVANT." The makers of the game felt the game is balanced and for the most part it is, but certain players like to use certain strategies and to say that a person cant use a specific strategy because another player already chose to use that strategy is a very weak and illogical way to run any kind of tournament. I understand if you are trying to give reining champions a boost so they can keep their titles (Which is in itself still terrible) But the area you are chosing to give them that advantage is neither reasonable, nor fair. If you chose this rule to deal with the problem of people picking leaders that are directly superior to already picked leaders, you are going about the wrong way to handle this. There are more logical ways to come to this argument and that includes having each player write the person they are going to pick in the staging room screen and on the count of 3 each players says the full name and country of the person they are going to pick and because its done so fast people have to do it in that 3 second window and spell everything correctly, Obviously this is a little wild, but a hell of a lot less wild than directly giving the advantage so some players over others.
If you are the person who invented this rule in Civ 3, whoever you are, you may need to read what I am writing here like 5 times, because I can't even conceive of someone comming up with that rule, let alone ultimatly picking it. People who carry on this tradition have a very poor conception of fairness and need to understand that games are no longer about skill, but about Clan skill, People not picking the leader you want Luck, and game skill, when if should just be game skill. If I love a cross bow strategy and I practice that strategy every single day and when I get to the one CCC cton tournament and it tells me that I cant use that strategy because it is used best with only 1 specific leader and to use another leader, while someone picks the leader you want to use, and they use the same strategy you were going to use, you end up being in a huge disadvantage against that person and everyone else, especially if all the industrious Leaders get picked and Its almost impossible to get wonders.
People should be allowed to pick who they want to pick. Certain maps give specific leaders an advantage over others leaders and if all the good leaders are taken, what than? Is this fair? If it his, ask yourself, literally, how is this fair? Seriously go ahead, try to convince yourself it is fair, because seriously, I cant find a logical (not even 1) logical reason in a video game why this should be a rule. The only reason why I could consider it a rule is because in real life there is obviously only one Alexander the great and in a game trying to stay true to life there should only be one, but this reasoning has no room in video games, let alone this one. We come to Civ 4 CCC to see who is the best of the best, no ifs ands or butts.
Lets compare this reasoning to something you guys may understand a little better. If you are on a tennis team, and you play doubles for your team and in the singles match before your game, the guy on your team losses. When your game started, not only does the other team have more (Over all) points than you in terms of the day (A by product and reason for winning), but you were told that you weren't allowed to use the racket you normally use, why? Because your opponent is using that same racket and its boring when everyone uses the same racket, because we all know certain tennis rackets are better for certain types of swings, player shape, form, serves, and stratagies. But in response to this harsh judgment you say, "well yes I do play with a few other rackets once in a while, but I am best with my Prince long head and considering this is the world championship game or Wimbledon and I want to play my Best, I think I should use the racket I am best at using, but they said, "I am sorry, thats too bad, you must use another one, WHy?, Because tradition is tradition and traditionally its more fun when the lowest ranked players dont get to pick the Rackets they normally play with because its cooler to see the same 5 Players make it to wimbledon every year and we want to make it harder for people to lose their positions and others to gain them, even if it means giving them a biased rule advantage.
There is no logical reason to do this no double picking rule in this context. If the model I designed above doesn't make sense, you may actually have Value assessment difficulties. Not trying to insult you, just being straight up serious.
Either allow players to pick whoever they like, or don't have just 1 Cton. Because in the end, games that are like the ones above, aren't true games of skill and tournaments are made to see who is the best in a specific area. Most people only end up participating in one event. If CCC is the only Major tournament in CIV 4, how is a player supposed to know who is actually the best when the tournament is based toward the clans with the most best players?
It isn't our fault that certain players are unbalanced on certain maps, its the creators of Civ 4s fault. As long as certain leaders are given an advantage on certain maps, and you allow the highest ranked player to pick that leader, you are giving that person an unfair advantage, the game is no longer fair or even, the game is now biased toward that person. Its like keeping the rich richer and the poor poorer, its keeping more money in the pockets for the rich and taking more money away from the pockets of the poor when it should be the other way around (OR) Not allowing this at all and a perfectly balanced environment is preserved in each event.
(Your come back) - "Well than Start your own tournaments" - I want to have my own tournaments but you must understand that for me to create one it would only take away from CCC tournaments as being special, why not change tradition and adopt more logical settings for games. I like the concept of CCC and there being only 1 major tournament every 6 weeks or so instead of every week and i want to keep it this way, but these rules and settings need to be changed, this isn't my personal opinion based on a perspective with the same value as other peoples opinions, this is an opinion based on actual Game theory strategy "Which I specialize in and indirectly pulling right outta my books" I am only here to create the "most balanced and fair game," "and this is how you do it, I'm not trying to tilt the odds in my favor, I'm trying to tilt the odds in the favor of the most skilled players."
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Issue 3: Future CCC events:
Here is a Good Idea for a Future Event.
1) Ironman Free for All 8 person ancient start - 120 - 200 turns first round - Epic no turn limit second round -
Why not create a strategy scenario as true to life as possible where people can talk in any way they please. In real life if someone looks like they are killing everyone and is in first place, people will talk and team up on that person, this teaches people actual strategy in knowing how to fool your enemies and play strategically to win, anything goes, anyone can say or trade or go to war and there are not set limits. People can talk in private. And do whatever. If it looks like 2 players are going into a game with a fixed strategy or going to team up, it was going to happen anyway even in regular cton rules, or someone is being attacked, they will obviously tell everyone that they are being attacked by 2 people and its logical to form an alliance with that person and a 3rd person in order to kill the 2 people because after that one person dies they will continue to alliance until everyone is dead and its better to team up while there is still 3 of them and even than the 2 people who are Allies have to kill each other inevitably and will have to strategically stab each others backs. If a specific player is really really good and they are afraid they will just be attacked by everyone when the game starts, they are wrong, most people don't even listen to people, unless they know for a fact they will be 100% safe in doing what they are doing. This will also teach people to play defensive games and even more importantly, not get insanely high scores making everyone think they are amazing players. Becides most great players, the greatest palyers usually being the ones who make it to the finals, realize that its stupid to attack anotehr player and hurt oneself in the begginign while everoyne else is just growing stronger. It is actually surprisingly difficult to keep ones score down if you know what you are doing and this will teach players to sabotage themselves and stay equal and not bring attention to themselves and in that fatal turn they take control and win. You wont have to Play this game always war and other strategies dont have to be picked and trade can actually occur!!!!!!!!! People will make allies and it will be the best game. This is true to the way strategy games are supposed to be played and this will be the most fun because (((((((( IT INCORPERATES NOT ONLY GAME LOGIC, BUT STRATEGY AND INTERACTION LOGIC AND STRATEGY AND THESE ARE THE BEST KINDS WHICH AT THE MOST DYNAMICS TO A GAME.)))))))))
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This is how tournaments should be run or be cool if they were run this way:
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Please read, its not what you think:
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Every single month there is a tournament:
The tournament will take place on the weekend, Friday Saturday, Sunday.
There will be 6 events a Day for a total of 18 events a tournament.
The first Month there will be 18 events and In each Event everyone who participates gets to pick any leader they like.
The Second Month there will be 18 events and in Each event everyone must pick Random.
These Months will switch.
So there will be 2 tournaments, each can have their own unique name. (Random tournament / Pick Tournament)
A specific Tournament will Be Held once every 4 months.
(Example Ancient 1v1) - But every month it will be held in a different time.
In Every Single Tournament the times for all events will move forward 1 slot making it take 72 months before a specific game will hit a specific Time period again. Obviously seems like a long time and obviously they will be out with a new game, but people play play this game forever and this tournament can go forever with it.
First month Schedule:
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Month 1:
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Friday Saturday Sunday
1v1 ancient pick 2v2 ancient pick 3v3 Ancient Pick
2v2 Medieval P 3v3 Medieval P 1v1 Medieval P
3v3 Indust P 1v1 Indust P 2v2 Indst P
1v1 Random P 2v2 Random P 3v3 Random P
Cton Ancient P Cton Medival P Cton Indust P
FFA Ancient P FFA Medival P FFA Industrious P
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Month 2:
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Friday Sturday Sunday
1v1 ancient Random 2v2 ancient R 3v3 Ancient R
2v2 Medival R 3v3 Medival R 1v1 Medival R
3v3 Indust R 1v1 Indust R 2v2 Indst R
1v1 Random R 2v2 Random R 3v3 Random R
Cton Ancient R Cton Medival R Cton Indust R
FFA Ancient R FFA Medival R FFA Industr R
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Month 3:
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Friday Sturday Sunday
2v2 Classical P 3v3 Classical pick 1v1 Classical Pick
3v3 Ren P 1v1 Ren P 2v2 Ren P
1v1 Modern P 2v2 Modern P 3v3 Modern P
2v2 Random P 3v3 Random P 1v1 Random P
Cton Classical P Cton Ren P Cton Modern P
FFA Classical P FFA Ren P FFA Modern P
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Month 4:
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Friday Sturday Sunday
2v2 Classical R 3v3 Classical R 1v1 Classical R
3v3 Ren R 1v1 Ren R 2v2 Ren R
1v1 Modern R 2v2 Modern R 3v3 Modern R
2v2 Random P 3v3 Random P 1v1 Random P
Cton Classical R Cton Ren R Cton Modern R
FFA Classical R FFA Ren R FFA Modern R
Month 5:
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Friday Saturday Sunday
FFA Medival Pick FFA Industrious P FFA Ancient P
2v2 ancient P 3v3 Ancient Pick 1v1 ancient p
3v3 Medival P 1v1 Medival P 2v2 Medival P 1v1 Indust P 2v2 Indst P 3v3 Indust P
2v2 Random P 3v3 Random P 1v1 Random P
Cton Medival P Cton Indust P Cton Ancient P
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Month 6:
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Friday Sturday Sunday
FFA Medival Ran FFA Industrious R FFA Ancient R
2v2 ancient R 3v3 Ancient R 1v1 ancient R
3v3 Medival R 1v1 Medival R 2v2 Medival R 1v1 Indust R 2v2 Indst R 3v3 Indust R
2v2 Random R 3v3 Random R 1v1 Random R
Cton Medival R Cton Indust R Cton Ancient R
AND SO ON::: "All Logical Rights Reserved"
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Now obviously this is just a rough sketch and in reality I would make it so there are maybe 50% random and 50% pick every single month, or maybe we just do it the way it is set up above.
Certain Events can Still have Subs and most rules are still the same.
We will actually start having who is actually the best in specific areas. It is even Logical to create a website with everyone stats on who is the best in certain areas. And give prizes to people. So you can Charge 1$ Pay pal or something for everyone to join a given tournament in a month and the Winner takes all or have a scoring or something. People keep times of games witht he options and take screen shots of the beggining and the end of Games. Maybe have some tournaments forfun, some for money, who knows, im just throwing lots of things out there.
Certain Tournaments will be offered every 4 moths, others will be offered every 2 months.
Due to the fact that actual games may be occurring less frequently (Every 4 Months). The titles will mean more.
Plus We can also set this up on clans so that Clans who win a given month, by having the most points, win the entire thing anf get a prize.
It Would be awesome if the Admins would actually look at what I wrote here, for it seems, at least for now, to be a great idea and the Ladder provides everything needed and all it would have to do is maybe add a page where the winners for each event each month should be written down (Takes about 5 minutes a month to do) if it isn't set on automate. Plus if this was turned into an actual site, the advertisement money, however small, can go 100% to prize money and people win prizes based on if they win, and Clans win money based on if they come in first.
I bet you a lot more than a few clans would be signing up these these things if you set them up like this, but in the the thats a biased perspective ;D
Anyways - Just Throwing this out there.
If you liek what I wrote here Please send me an Email at MrgameTheory@hotmail.com or AOL instant Message me or XFire me at "MrGameTheory".
Thank you for reading all of this. If you read this in one sitting, your amazing and I appreciate it, If you read it in multiple sittings, thats cool too and your still awsome.
Thanks a bunch.
Sincerely,
Mr Game Theory.