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Post by SirPartyMan on Mar 2, 2006 10:57:37 GMT -5
This is the thread for you to make comments about the current CCC schedule/rules and future CCC's.
Best, SPM
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Post by friedrichpsitalon on Mar 2, 2006 11:56:02 GMT -5
One point of clarification requested, since I'm sure it will come up:
In the Renny start, you state that no duplicate leaders may be chosen, but both leaders within a civilization MAY be chosen. Fine and clear. Is this rule applied "Per team" or "per game?" May duplicates exist on opposing teams?
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Post by tommynt on Mar 2, 2006 12:09:51 GMT -5
SPM, please move the ironman to the time it has allways been!! atm u got it at the qualifier time which is totaly unplayable for euros - in addition u moved civ4 fut 3 hours later to make it even more unplayable for euros i know this time discussion is old - but u found a scedule in civ3 which was somewhat ok, also for euros and now u screw us so badly again ... wtf?? u cant want some1 to start a event without pauses that takes about 12 hours at midnihgt. 2 out of 3 events on firday at unplayable time is just too much and i (and maybe whole MUD) ll boycot ccc if it stays that way oh well and this last eevnts sound a bit like a joke (or choke?).. random era random civ ..ok BUT lake map tiny ? i doubt that lake map is any good for later eras it s not even good for any era - starts are often 4 tiles from each other - what d mean that u can take opp cap with mech in turn 2 ... THATS NOT CIV! I suggest maybe inland sea for that randumb thing some map where start loc are somewhat predictable - on mirror and tbf there also allways some minimum range @fried: I think it s quite clear no multiple leaders allowed ... picks 121212 so if 1 picks KAtherine 2 can pick peter .. then 1 victoria and 2 elisabeth .. then 1 gandhi and 2 ashoka ... bit boring
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Post by SirPartyMan on Mar 2, 2006 12:31:45 GMT -5
I have made some adjustments based on Tommy's comments and Frieds.
Best, SPM
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Post by friedrichpsitalon on Mar 2, 2006 12:36:54 GMT -5
SPM, please move the ironman to the time it has allways been! atm u got it at the qualifier time which is totaly unplayable for euros - in addition u moved civ4 fut 3 hours later to make it even more unplayable for euros i know this time discussion is old - but u found a scedule in civ3 which was somewhat ok, also for euros and now u screw us so badly again ... wtf?? u cant want some1 to start a event without pauses that takes about 12 hours at midnihgt. 2 out of 3 events on firday at unplayable time is just too much and i (and maybe whole MUD) ll boycot ccc if it stays that way oh well and this last eevnts sound a bit like a joke (or choke?).. random era random civ ..ok BUT lake map tiny ? i doubt that lake map is any good for later eras it s not even good for any era - starts are often 4 tiles from each other - what d mean that u can take opp cap with mech in turn 2 ... THATS NOT CIV! I suggest maybe inland sea for that randumb thing some map where start loc are somewhat predictable - on mirror and tbf there also allways some minimum range @fried: I think it s quite clear no multiple leaders allowed ... picks 121212 so if 1 picks KAtherine 2 can pick peter .. then 1 victoria and 2 elisabeth .. then 1 gandhi and 2 ashoka ... bit boring Edited for a little more politeness....We really need to stop with the "I'm going to boycott" responses any time we don't like something. It's highly divisive to the community. Let's suck it up. "I'm going to take my ball and go home" is a response we expect from children, and only at a young age - certainly not from adults. If you don't like a problem, resolve it like an adult and negotiate the situation. Threats are not an acceptable means of getting your way, here, anywhere, ever. SPM does the best he does in helping every group out; many of the times are grueling for lots of people. Two events play straight through the night for us "Americans" and some start quite early for West-Coasters. It's tough all around - have some geographic breadth in your clan. SPM doesn't hate Euros or Americans or Asians or anyone else (we do have a decent number of Koreans on the ladder, by the way.) He's just the guy who has to make the tough call with no good answer. Show a little more respect. He does the best we can with what we have... let's show a little more thanks and try to find a way that works for everyone, with a polite explanation and reasonable discussion. I'd like to offer an example below.
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Post by friedrichpsitalon on Mar 2, 2006 12:43:30 GMT -5
SPM - respectfully, I think another map might be good for the Random/Random. A map with water (to emphasize possible boat use) and land connections would be best, or possibly a map like Islands/Archipelago.
Tommy does make a good point about location placement in Lakes; on higher-density maps placements can be very close, and the potential for a spoiled game due to Mech Infantry on a Future is not insigificant.
I would reccomend Small, and if the patch is released in time "Shuffle," and if not perhaps Custom Continents.
Thanks for the consideration.
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Post by SirPartyMan on Mar 2, 2006 12:47:22 GMT -5
Ok - I changed times of Ironman and Future.
The civ picking rule for team games is each team can pick each leader once per team. I don't think a team of 4 Peters or 4 Ghandis is a good game. But each team can have 1 Peter and 1 Ghandi if they wish or even 1 Peter and 1 Catherine.
As to the maps I will go with Tommy's suggestion of Small Inland sea unless the patch comes out and then we'll try Shuffle.
Best, SPM
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Post by friedrichpsitalon on Mar 2, 2006 12:50:35 GMT -5
Great, thanks!
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Post by SirPartyMan on Mar 2, 2006 12:56:41 GMT -5
By the way the RANDOM/RANDOM final match is a good test of total mastery of the game, in my opinion, and an exciting way to finish. Each clan will have to save its best most versatile players for the last event, which also adds some drama and strategy to the event when it's still undecided.
We'll see how it turns out.
Best, SPM
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icbm
Settler
Posts: 60
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Post by icbm on Mar 2, 2006 14:34:49 GMT -5
Did I calculate right that there're 5 ancient events?
So if you win CCC you can play 1/7th of the game. Wow.
To add something sensible to my post of evident frustration, I'll give you a suggestion on how CCC should be organized:
9 Events:
All eras played:
1v1 ancient 2v2 classical 3v3 medieval 1v1 remaossamce
...
switch the places in each CCC, so in next it would be:
3v3 ancient, 1v1 classical
...
Then add in ironman.
After 8 events, two best clans play 3v3 random era.
Sorry for the possible typos but I don't see the text I write since it's in black on a blue bg. Haven't been able to modify the colors perhaps something to with opera?
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Post by tommynt on Mar 2, 2006 14:38:52 GMT -5
I m sry for my words, but i was really upset that after we had more then enough of these time discussions in civ3 - there was a step back to worse
I apprechiate the changes
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Post by charliebrownparker on Mar 2, 2006 18:32:17 GMT -5
Ok - I changed times of Ironman and Future. As future and Ironman time has been switched Future start is now placed as Event 2. It's important to notify that No City Razing is now unchecked that modify complety the way of playing. We tried it and it stays fun too ;D. Space victory would be harder to achieve which sounds good .
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Post by SirPartyMan on Mar 2, 2006 19:58:44 GMT -5
Did I calculate right that there're 5 ancient events? So if you win CCC you can play 1/7th of the game. Wow. I try to have the tourney structure reflect what's popular - what's played every day. It will change over time. Do you think we are playing all 7 eras equally now? It's logical that people want to play and master ancient first - the same thing happened with CIV3. But by the end we were all playing Future starts. I see a big interest, over the last month especially, in Renaissance. History teaches me that different eras and custom scenarios will pop up and experience a period of three to six months of popularity, then the next one comes along. Keeps things interesting. Thanks for the suggestion. SPM
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Post by Ellestar on Mar 3, 2006 2:38:51 GMT -5
EST times aren't really helpful IMHO. At least GMT should be included as well. Event #1 Ancient 1v1 Friday, March 10th at 3:00 pm EST 12:00 am PST 8 PM GMT 9 PM CET 23:00 Moscow Event #2 Future 3v3 Friday, March 10th at 7:00 pm EST March 10th at 4:00 pm PST March 11th at 00:00 am GMT March 11th at 01:00 am CET March 11th at 03:00 Moscow Event #3 Ancient 2v2 Saturday, March 11th at 1:00 am EST March 10th at 10:00 pm PST March 11th at 06:00 am GMT March 11th at 07:00 am CET March 11th at 09:00 Moscow Event #4 IronMan Saturday, March 11th at 8:00 am EST 5:00 am PST 01:00 pm GMT 02:00 pm CET 16:00 Moscow Event #5 Ancient 4v4 Saturday, March 11th, 2006, 10:00 am EST 7:00 am PST 03:00 pm GMT 04:00 pm CET 18:00 Moscow Event #6 Renaissance 3v3 Saturday, March 11th, 1:00 pm EST 10:00 am PST 06:00 pm GMT 07:00 pm CET 21:00 Moscow Event #7 Ancient 3v3 Sunday, March 12th, 2006 starting 9:00 AM EST 6:00 am PST 02:00 pm GMT 03:00 pm CET 17:00 Moscow Event #8 Medieval 3v3 Sunday, March 12th, 2006 10:00 am EST 7:00 am PST 03:00 pm GMT 04:00 pm CET 18:00 Moscow Event #9 Random/Random 2v2 Sunday, March 12th, 2006 - 11:00 am EST 8:00 am PST 04:00 pm GMT 05:00 pm CET 19:00 Moscow ******************** How many hours different events last on average? ******************** Great plains map on a tournament? I do remember my last (and only) start on that map in the middle of the plains. One team had forests near 1 starting location, another team had forests near 3 starting locations. And so on. I had only river and plains near a starting location, no resources, no hills, NOTHING, and i was on front. Thankfully, we scrapped it after some scouting because it happened that Great plains Standart size is too big for Ancient 4v4. ******************** Shuffle? Huh? What's that? Is there an online description somewhere like for other maps? IMHO it's not a good idea to run a tournament where only beta players played on a new patch AND on a new map that is used in the last event. We still don't have even patch notes, and there is a week left before a tournament. IMHO it was a bad idea from the start. One thing is to use a patch that fixes bugs, and entirely another is to use a patch that significatly changes balance in a STRATEGY game tournament. What if that patch will be released on a day of the tournament? One day before it? If it will not be released today (before weekends), a lot of players who have a work will not be able to playtest it at all. Say, i'm playing about a half of my weekly playtime in weekends. I try to have the tourney structure reflect what's popular - what's played every day. It will change over time. No we don't play that new patch every day More like never
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Post by tommynt on Mar 3, 2006 3:55:19 GMT -5
ellestar, i think there s no option as to go with patch as soon as it s out ... if only 1 player install it all other have to do aswell ... also for me last patch installed itslef kinda automaticly and i think u ll have problems in lobby without patch when it s out. I doubt that old strategies ll be useless ... in fact some old civ3 things still work out very well often enough
about great plain map - on small it s kinda perfect sized for 3-3 and starts varify more then on tbf but even if 1 player is kinda screed in the plains his teammtes can have all the cows and horses. Sometimes u just have to deal with what u got. we had a very interesting and fun event on this map last time...
I m bit more worried bout balanced for the 4-4 espacially as for these big teamers tbf is sooo popular (I guess 95% of anc teamers are played on tbf) - tbf just got the big advantage that it s fun for all players - every player got his counterpart. on standard balanced 1 might start more then 35 tiles away from closest opponent - oh well I dont wana complain balanced is interesting aswell for sure
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Post by Ellestar on Mar 3, 2006 5:05:28 GMT -5
ellestar, i think there s no option as to go with patch as soon as it s out ... if only 1 player install it all other have to do aswell ... also for me last patch installed itslef kinda automaticly and i think u ll have problems in lobby without patch when it s out. I doubt that old strategies ll be useless ... in fact some old civ3 things still work out very well often enough Actually, if you keep patches on HDD (IIRC game doesn't delete them if you use built-in game update), then you can uninstall Civ4, install it back and apply a patch you want. Civ 4 doesn't automatically upgrade itself, but there is an option in a main menu to do it. IIRC game without patches still connects to the lobby. Well, for example if cossacks are nerfed it significantly changes Ren gameplay. Any changes in forest chopping mechanics are absolutely critical. Also, someone said that Serfdom is nerfed. So, once again it may be a huge change. I can control workers fast on manual only because i can control them semi-automatically. If anything changes, then i need some time to get accustomed to it. Before that, i'll have a huge efficiency hit because of errors (i'll try to use workers the old way).
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Post by venceslas on Mar 4, 2006 9:43:19 GMT -5
In the 1v1 event, for the sea level option, it seems impossible to choose another value than low.
chris.
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icbm
Settler
Posts: 60
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Post by icbm on Mar 4, 2006 23:50:20 GMT -5
SPM, then call it ancient tournament or something, not CCC. Fact is CIV has 7 eras and unfortunately to be good in any game you have to master all pieces in it, regardless of what your preferences are or the preferences of 99,999999% of the players. The fact I'm extremely pissed about is that CCC is supposed to be a championship of the game, not one era, and for example I, myself, playing mostly industrial/modern/future get a very small chance of showing anything in it.
I'm sure the tournament reflects popularity, that doesn't mean that the structure is right. You throw in all eras and I quarantee that people are immediately starting to play them and we might after 12 CCCs have some idea who might be good in the game since the ladder statistics are a joke.
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Post by Sidhe on Mar 5, 2006 6:02:45 GMT -5
Should of been the same sort of format as last time, I'm in agreement with ICBM here, not that I can play in it anyway but if I could I would want to see a bit more of a mix. Say 3 ancs and ironman and a Ren teamer Indu/medi/modern teamer and a future perhaps and perhaps 2 single player cton in another era or maybe another teamer in a non anc scenario.
But since unlike most people I can play in any era comfortably accept maybe medievil and so can most of my clan maybe we are freaks, but we have been mixing up games since the start, sure we have our favourites but just playing ancs is boring? I really can't understand the obsession the ladder has with them atm? And I could be considered to be an anc specialist of sorts.
That way you have
44% anc and not 56% anc which is over the top IMO.
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Post by Ellestar on Mar 6, 2006 1:28:46 GMT -5
I try to have the tourney structure reflect what's popular - what's played every day. It will change over time. Do you think we are playing all 7 eras equally now? It's logical that people want to play and master ancient first - the same thing happened with CIV3. But by the end we were all playing Future starts. I see a big interest, over the last month especially, in Renaissance. Actually, if you'll ever try to find a non-Renaissance teamer in lobby, you'll be unpleasantly surprised. There are some Direct IP ladder teamers going sometimes, but in lobby it's almost always Renaissance. Ctons are ancient, true. But not teamers.
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